4e DMs: Allow players a 5 minute rest after EVERY encounter?

[MichaelSomething]

I always though the general assumption was that a party would take a short rest after every encounter. The game was designed with that idea in mind. Of course, it is possible to design situations where a party is unable to take a short rest. If a party hasn't taken a short rest, you'll need to be ready to deal with it. If their previous fight was hard, they may become to weak to successfully deal with the next one.

 

[Nork]

There really isn't any reason that a break has to be 5 minutes.

Your party has made it through the gauntlet, having dispatched the hobgoblins in your way, and are now out of sight of the hobgoblin bowmen on the ramparts. As you round the corner you see a hastily assembled barricade in front of the doors to the inner keep, and the hobgoblins behind it have a mix of long spears and crossbows. However, it is the sight of a hobgoblin taskmaster whipping several slaves as he directs them to reposition a pair of light ballistas to point in your direction that makes your survival instincts surge, this battle is far from over and you draw on your reserves to see it through. You steel yourselves for the coming fight, spend healing surges and refresh encounter powers as though you had taken a short rest.

As per a game balance point of view, the gauntlet the players just made their way through was designed to challenge them under the assumption that it was a full encounter (maybe even a very difficult encounter at that), and the barricade is designed to be a very difficult encounter. 4E is designed such that the mechanics just assume that a short rest would be given. However, story wise, it doesn't make any sense to stop for 5 minutes after passing through the gauntlet, however mechanically the players are not making any sort of risk vs reward choice to rest or not to rest. So I think the reasonable conclusion is to just pretty much say "beating the gauntlet was a milestone, you get the effect of a 'short rest', even if you don't actually have 5 minutes. Seeing a pair of ballista pointed at you focuses the mind and all that."

Now, if they had defeated the keep lord, and he runs off down a secret escape passage with a sack of gold, well, you give the players the choice of regrouping (taking a rest) or following in hot persuit (not taking a rest).

 

[Samurai]

There really isn't any reason that a break has to be 5 minutes.

Your party has made it through the gauntlet, having dispatched the hobgoblins in your way, and are now out of sight of the hobgoblin bowmen on the ramparts. As you round the corner you see a hastily assembled barricade in front of the doors to the inner keep, and the hobgoblins behind it have a mix of long spears and crossbows. However, it is the sight of a hobgoblin taskmaster whipping several slaves as he directs them to reposition a pair of light ballistas to point in your direction that makes your survival instincts surge, this battle is far from over and you draw on your reserves to see it through. You steel yourselves for the coming fight, spend healing surges and refresh encounter powers as though you had taken a short rest.

As per a game balance point of view, the gauntlet the players just made their way through was designed to challenge them under the assumption that it was a full encounter (maybe even a very difficult encounter at that), and the barricade is designed to be a very difficult encounter. 4E is designed such that the mechanics just assume that a short rest would be given. However, story wise, it doesn't make any sense to stop for 5 minutes after passing through the gauntlet, however mechanically the players are not making any sort of risk vs reward choice to rest or not to rest. So I think the reasonable conclusion is to just pretty much say "beating the gauntlet was a milestone, you get the effect of a 'short rest', even if you don't actually have 5 minutes. Seeing a pair of ballista pointed at you focuses the mind and all that."

Now, if they had defeated the keep lord, and he runs off down a secret escape passage with a sack of gold, well, you give the players the choice of regrouping (taking a rest) or following in hot persuit (not taking a rest).

You could do the same with the gate encounter... "It looks like it'll take them another 5 minutes to get the ballistas into proper firing position... do you want to rest or charge them before they get them into position?"

 

[korjik]

Isnt there a section/sidebar in the encounter chapter in DMG2 that says if you make a continuing encounter (no rest between encounters) that you should recharge the encounter powers and award milestones if appropriate?

I dont have a DMG2 handy, or I would look myself

 

[ST]

Honestly, I'd ditch the five minute requirement entirely and just go with "Is this the same encounter, as in are there monsters actively fleeing to get reinforcements or heading to the party?" and if it isn't, then they get a moment to catch their breath and that's their "five minute rest".

There are three questions that kinda get conflated here, which I find interesting.
1) How large an encounter before the PCs get their resources restored?
2) How long does it take for reinforcements to arrive?
3) How long does it take to briefly rest and catch your breath?

It seems like (1) is a game balance issue, and (2) and (3) are "realism" issues. They're apples and oranges. If you want to make a long multistage encounter because that's what you want to do, great, but if you do it because they'd only have three or four minutes to rest instead of five, you're making a game balance decision for non game balance related reasons.

 

[Pickles JG]

Is this too harsh? Do other DMs let them rest after every battle?

They are called encounter powers for a reason.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I'd say a lot of combats are done in 20 mins or less for us.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but what I am saying is that I don't see how its remotely possible to have a 4e combat that is a challenge for the party in less than 20 minutes. Assuming each character and monster takes 30 seconds per turn (which is generous)....

5 PCs (2.5 minutes) + 7 monsters(3.5 minutes) = 6 minutes a round.

At this point in our campaign the daggermaster rogue does the following turn at least once every combat....

1. Moves from hiding and throws a dagger with sneak attack (D20, D4, 3D8) and rolls a crit (+4D12)
3. Uses some encounter power to get a second attack on a crit (D20, D4)
4. Fires his hand crossbow for free at a target for getting a crit (D20, ?)
5. Moves into cover and makes a stealth roll (D20)

That turn alone can take up to 10 minutes, depending on how many different targets are available and how many other people and monsters chime in during his turn with crazy abilities and bonuses.

DS

 

[I'm A Banana]

I let them rest unless there's a reason not to.

There sometimes might be a reason not to, but it's rare and special and noteworthy.

Normally, they get to rest.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I almost always let a rest happen. As a point of reference, I was running the Dungeon Delve at DDXP 2008. Since 4e wasn't out yet, we were handed a Delve that was created using the beta rules. It was written using a lot of the same assumptions they used to write the 3.5e Delves (3 encounters, each a room apart).

We were told right before we sat down to run it that WOTC had said that these encounters should have been further apart. The point of 4e is to have short rests in between encounters so you get a chance to spend healing surges and get back encounter powers. We don't want to give a false impression of the way 4e works so no matter what, the encounters in the other rooms would not hear battle or join the the fights happening in the other rooms no matter what. Nor would they wander in before short rests were complete.

I also managed to sit in on a panel with some of the people from R&D regarding adventure creations. They made sure we understood the concept that when designing dungeons, if monsters were likely to hear and join a combat that we should design all the monsters as one encounter. If we using 6 creatures of level 1 was a balanced encounter for your PCs, then it's a good idea to either place them all in the same room with no one else within hearing distance OR to have them spread out in multiple rooms but all be able to hear and come to each other's aid.

They stressed that having 2 full balanced encounters attack a party at the same time was almost certain death. And fighting them consecutively without a short rest would be really hard, bordering on certain death.

Also, it was stressed that the 5 minute resting period was an arbitrary number that meant "there was at least a short break between the encounters". Characters are assumed to take a short rest even if they spend only 3 minutes between encounters. And they can be doing almost anything between the encounters: Searching rooms, walking down corridors, looting bodies, deciding which direction to go next are all "short rests".

 

[S'mon]

They stressed that having 2 full balanced encounters attack a party at the same time was almost certain death. And fighting them consecutively without a short rest would be really hard, bordering on certain death.

That seems like an exaggeration; 2 PL +0 encounters together > PL +4, which the DMG lists as the top end of 'hard but doable'. IME you have to get up around PL +6 before you're likely to actually defeat the PCs.