Neonchameleon
Legend
HP is a resource. For HP to be balanced within the encounter, it needs to come back at the end of every encounter. If it didn't, the encounters wouldn't be balanced (they'd assume a level of HP that may actually vary depending on what part of the recharge cycle you have the encounter on).
That's because you're looking at the wrong dial. Hit points come back at the end of every encounter. Healing Surges don't. And damage taken to hit points also affects your healing surges, with only very rare types of magic being able to replenish surges. If you want things like one-off traps to matter, push the PCs hard enough that the limited resource of healing surges gets stretched for at least some of them; PCs who look as if they are about to run out of surges suddenly get very timid.
The design doesn't really care if you do that via wands or potions or hit dice or healing surges. The only reason 4e even has an "extended rest" is to give a nod to the fact that, pre-4e, the game was not as tightly defined around the encounter. 4e could be played with a "you gain all your hp back at the end of the encounter" hand-wave without any major hiccups -- 3e, too, but the only major difference between wands of CLW and healing surges is the implied flavor and control of the resource.
Not true. The reason 4e has an extended rest is because resource management is a part of D&D - extended rest recharges were missing entirely from Orcus and this was one of its major flaws (although not the crippling one). The reason extended rests are overnight is because in previous editions D&D magic works on an overnight rest. Not pressing hard enough that healing surges matter is the 4e equivalent to the 15 minute adventuring day, and both stem from the same problem; that outside a dungeon environment (where an 8 hour rest is suicidal) or something equally dangerous, resting overnight is just too easy. The solution is the same in both cases - either random ninja attacks, or make recovery harder.
However in my experience it's much easier to change the extended rest rules through a simple one line house rule than change the spellcaster recovery rules, apparently arbitrarily nerfing the casters while leaving alone (or even buffing) the non-casters.
So I don't see it as a localized "extended rest problem." It's a problem IMO because HP are defined as something you use in one encounter, rather than over the course of several.
This is true only if you ignore healing surges. Which, to be fair, many do.
Yeah, but it's still just roll the dice to see if the DM lets you win. Which doesn't work for everyone (and doesn't work for me).
Except that 4e is less like that than any other version. When you have a structure like a skill challenge it's not just on DM fiat. You might not be able to see the scoreboard, but having it there provides the neutral framework you are advocating for. And with three settings to the difficulty, and the ability to bring in different skills, you have an element of tactical skill in there if that's your thing.
I want a rogue to have as unique a contribution when they're exploring the dungeon or chatting up the townsfolk as when they're killin' goblins, and 4e defines rogues mostly in terms of how they kill goblins. It's meticulously balanced for that, but that's not what I've ever found most interesting and fun and engaging about my D&D games.
Once again, "Welcome to D&D". There was nothing unique about the 3e rogue out of combat except trapfinding and trapsense (and even that was shared with e.g. artificers). Everything else was on skill rolls. Out of combat the 4e rogue not only has his skills, but also has utility powers. The Cunning Sneak can also hide in places almost no one else can. Thieves no only can take an option to almost match the Cunning Sneak for hiding but can gain an out-and-out climb speed if they want to. The 4e Rogue therefore leaves the 3e rogue in the dust (or even the Pathfinder one; Utility Powers > Rogue Knacks). To be fair, the pre-3e rogues got some unique things.
And yet every game of 4e that I have played has had a MUCH bigger percentage of the time dedicated to combat than any of the things I find so much more fun, because 4e does not make them as fun or as interesting as earlier e's made them.
This isn't true. What 4e did was made combat a lot more interesting and take too long. There is little substantive difference between the 4e skill system and the 3e one (the skills are a bit more streamlined, but that's about it). The non-casters are more differentiated and more competent, and the casters less overwhelming (although the wizard is still one of the strongest out of combat classes). What 4e did was put a solid but not terribly assuming rules light skill and magic system that was an incremental improvement on earlier next to a Big! Awesome! Shiny! Flashy! Combat! Engine! that takes some time to build up steam - and the Big! Awesome! Shiny! Flashy! Exclamation! Mark! part of the game draws all the eyeballs and the attention.
And the two are a bit of a mismatch. The little engine that could next to the three ring circus. Or possibly a professional chamber orchestra trying to perform next to a Nine Inch Nails concert. That's where the seeming problem with 4e's non combat lies. Air on a G String is beautiful and the performers and instruments are better than ever - but appreciating it when there's a live performance of Closer going on next door and very little soundproofing can be a challenge.