4e Extravaganza Seminar (with Cover Pics)

[Hjorimir]

I'm really intrigued by Hammerfast and Vor Rukoth. As a homebrewing DM, I’m not really all that interested in the campaign settings they put out, but detailed locations that I can just plop down in my world may be a very tempting type of product.

 

[Campbell]

I'm really intrigued by Hammerfast and Vor Rukoth. As a homebrewing DM, I’m not really all that interested in the campaign settings they put out, but detailed locations that I can just plop down in my world may be a very tempting type of product.

This, plus the cover of the Demonomicon makes me drool. That picture makes me want to use vrocks in my game.

 

[Belorin]

This will probably date me, but all I could think of when I saw the Demonomicon cover was the bad 'Z' movie "The Giant Claw".
I'm just glad I wasn't drinking anything or I'd be looking for a new keyboard!
I am looking forward to a lot of the new books, especially the race and location paperbacks.

Bel

 

[Rechan]

The thing that disappoints me the most is that "I've seen it".

Undead Book. Dragon Book (2!). Demon book.

How about something we haven't seen first? LIKE A BOOK DEDICATED TO FEY?! Or The Feywild, instead of an Underdark book?!

I know "just because we haven't announced it doesn't mean it won't", because they have to publish something after the above. But I don't want to wait on it. We've seen the above before - put out something fresher first.

Something I find curious: no mention of Arcane Power 2, or Adventurer's Vault 3. Maybe they're slowing down the "More splats". Although I don't see Psionic Power either.

 

[Belorin]

Yes, I know we've seen most of this all before and I personally can't wait for a Fey book or even a Feywild book, books on Primal Spirits, and Primordials.
It almost seems that Wizards is afraid to release new material too fast, as if the game might not hold up or something.

Bel

 

[Malacoda]

*golf clap*

I see the supplement mill is still in full swing.

And I wholeheartedly approve. I like D&D for a number of reasons, but one of them is that it is well supported with a constant stream of supplementary material. I have the cash, they have the goods; it is a beautiful combination. As long as they maintain a fairly solid level of quality, I hope the supplement mill grinds away for years to come.

I see your *golf clap* and up it a \m/ \m/ and a "Woot!"

 

[Echohawk]

And I wholeheartedly approve. I like D&D for a number of reasons, but one of them is that it is well supported with a constant stream of supplementary material.

Amen to that. Also, for the first time, this edition of D&D has regular supplements that my players are motivated to buy. For the whole cycle of 3.0/3.5 I think my players probably invested in about six supplements (a few Complete * books, a PH2 and a Spell Compendium). A little more than a year into 4e and they've already collectively bought copies of Adventurer's Vault, Martial Power, Arcane Power, Player's Handbook 2 and several packs of the power cards. Four out of six of my players also have DDI subscriptions (and the other two rely on those four to help them manage their characters).

I find it very heartening that WotC seems to have finally figured out how to make more of their supplements truly appealing to players; I never quite felt they managed to do that previously.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Why is this not sustainable? WotC is following this model since at least the year 2000 with the release of 3rd Edition D&D?

How many non-setting-specific books did WotC publish in the course of 3e and 3.5?

I have a feeling that 4e is already creeping up on that number, and 4e has been out, what... about a year?

What alternative models can you point to or do you propose that has proven the same or better sustainability?

Look at White Wolf's model for nWoD.

And TSR before them, for a quite a bit longer. It's been the industry standard for the large RPG publishers.

Just because it's the "standard" doesn't make it the best idea. There is always room for improvement.

Well, they are experimenting right now w/a online subscription model. People seem to like that service.

And that might be a step in the right direction. I have a feeling that it isn't.

Do you believe the "pumping out book after book month after month" model will disappear if the world was more egalitarian?

Egalitarianism has nothing to do with this.

I have the cash, they have the goods; it is a beautiful combination.

What's the buy-in cost to get into D&D? For the average person out there in the world, not the grizzled gamer veteran who knows where to find the best deals.

I think that the high cost of entry means that very much so fewer groups are forming "in the wild," as it were. Not only that, but the "everything is core" model probably indicates to those not in the know that you need all these freakin' books, which probably doesn't help.

I find it very heartening that WotC seems to have finally figured out how to make more of their supplements truly appealing to players; I never quite felt they managed to do that previously.

This could be done without the supplement mill. Probably even easier than with it.

 

[coyote6]

Look at White Wolf's model for nWoD

Uh, what?

(courtesy of Wikipedia)

Vampire: The Requiem (August 2004)
Coteries (October 2004)
Nomads (November 2004)
Rites of the Dragon (November 2004)
Bloodlines: The Hidden (February 2005)
Lancea Sanctum (March 2005)
City of the Damned: New Orleans (May 2005)
Ghouls (May 2005)
Ordo Dracul (July 2005)
VII (August 2005)
The Invictus (October 2005)
Bloodlines: The Legendary (January 2006)
Requiem Chronicler's Guide (February 2006)
Carthians (April 2006)
Mythologies (June 2006)
Circle of the Crone (August 2006)
Belial's Brood (January 2007)
The Blood (May 2007)
Bloodlines: The Chosen (July 2007)
Damnation City (August 2007)
Requiem for Rome (October 2007)
Fall of The Camarilla (January 2008)
Criminal Intent (PDF only) (January 2008)
Scenes of Frenzy (PDF Only) (January 2008)
Blood Red + Ash Gray (PDF Only) (January 2008)
The Resurrectionists (PDF only) (January 2008)
Ventrue: Lords Over the Damned (April 2008)
Kiss of the Succubus: Daeva (May 2008)
Savage and Macabre: Gangrel (September 2008)
Shadows in the Dark: Mekhet (January 21 2009)
New Wave Requiem (February 2009)
Night Horrors Immortal Sinners (February 2009)
The Beast that Haunts the Blood: Nosferatu (March 2009)
Vampire: Ancient Mysteries (April 2009)
Ancient Bloodlines

Mage: The Awakening (August 2005)
Boston Unveiled (October 2005)
Sanctum and Sigil (November 2005)
Legacies: The Sublime (January 2006)
Guardians of the Veil (February 2006)
Tome of the Watchtowers (April 2006)
Secrets of the Ruined Temple (May 2006)
Reign of the Exarchs (July 2006)
Tome of the Mysteries (November 2006)
Legacies: The Ancient (January 2007)
Intruders: Encounters With the Abyss (March 2007)
Free Council (May 2007)
Magical Traditions (June 2007)
Mysterium (September 2007)
Astral Realms (November 2007)
The Adamantine Arrow (January 2008)
Banishers (March 2008)
Lines of Power (April 2008, electronic)
Grimoire of Grimoires (May 2008)
Silver Ladder (July 2008)
Keys to the Supernal Tarot (November 2008)
Seers of the Throne (February 2009)
Summoners (April 2009)

Werewolf: The Forsaken (March 2005)
Hunting Ground: The Rockies (April 2005)
Predators (June 2005)
Lore of the Forsaken (August 2005)
Blood of the Wolf (October 2005)
Lodges: The Faithful (November 2005)
Blasphemies (January 2006)
Territories (April 2006)
Lodges: The Splintered (September 2006)
The Pure (November 2006)
The Rage: Forsaken Player's Guide (February 2007)
The War Against the Pure (March 2007)
Parlor Games (PDF Only) (January, 2008)
Tribes of the Moon (April 2008)

 

[Malacoda]

What's the buy-in cost to get into D&D? For the average person out there in the world, not the grizzled gamer veteran who knows where to find the best deals.

I think that the high cost of entry means that very much so fewer groups are forming "in the wild," as it were. Not only that, but the "everything is core" model probably indicates to those not in the know that you need all these freakin' books, which probably doesn't help.

It strikes me that the cost to get into D&D "cold" is the same as it was through all editions since 1e: the cost of three books. This assumes you are not going with the intro product. But who gets into RPGs cold? Some do, but that is not the general path.

Either way, I am not sure how this relates to either my point or yours, unless you think Wizards should put out less product so as not to scare off cold customers. That sounds like an awful business decision.