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4E is for casuals, D&D is d0med
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<blockquote data-quote="ReillyMcShane" data-source="post: 4279114" data-attributes="member: 68511"><p>I haven't gotten my books yet - on order - but from what I've read, I'm excited about 4E based upon many of the aspects that the article - and some users - stated.</p><p></p><p>First, I have played for about 30 years and, to be honest, I don't have time like I used to. I have a family to do stuff with, house to take care of, job to attend, bills to pay, etc. My old circle of D&D friends are in the same boat. We get together once every 3-4 months for a day of gaming - drink beer, eat pretzels, catch up with each other. We like to kill stuff, get treasure - typical dungeon dive. Travel times to my house (where we play) are from 1-2.5 hours - so it's not easy to get us all together. We want to maximize the time we have together. D&D is the catalyst that gets us to re-connect, and we want to enjoy the time.</p><p></p><p>With that in mind, I hope 4E is a simpler, more streamlined game. I found 3E to be great on one level (lots of detail), but then it got caught up in so many rules, it could get frustrating. As the (usually) DM, preparing for a session was a lot of work. Trying to understand what the heck each monster actually did, feats, etc. - was quite time consuming - especially for high levels. And when you don't play that often, it really can bog down a game. </p><p></p><p>I'm a little worried that combat is going to be more confusing, but I haven't tried it yet to know for sure. But I don't mind a long fight, as long as people are doing stuff, making decisions, etc. It's when you sit there waiting for the cleric to review his 100+ spell options (my slowest player has a 16th level cleric in 3E - he can really make things go slow, but in his defense, he doesn't know the spells that well since we don't play that often) that it gets frustrating. Also, we had one player who played with us for a while when 3E came out, and he knew things far better than the rest of us. It was really frustrating to me as the DM - and the other players - as he'd pull rules out of his butt that none of us knew (of course, he never helped me out much when there were rules that might have helped me as the DM!). It was the nature of things since he played so much, but it wasn't that fun to the rest of us.</p><p></p><p>All in all, 3E is difficult because we didn't play that often together. Knowing spells, skills, feats, etc. - was a new experience every time. I rarely wrote my own adventures (which I used to do all the time) because I didn't know the rules as well as I did in 2.0 - when we played a lot more and things weren't as complex.</p><p></p><p>No doubt there will be things we miss - races, spells, whatever. But that happens every edition. But there will probably be additions we love. If streamlining the gaming system means more 'casual', it will likely be a winner in our group. Some people will prefer the deep complexity of 3E, and that's great for them. What's 'better' will simply be what fits a person's situation.</p><p></p><p>For my friends and I it's about getting together and enjoying each other's company. Drink beer, talk about the kids, jobs, old times, whatever. It's a social experience and we have a blast. </p><p></p><p>Time will tell, but I'm optimistic about 4E.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ReillyMcShane, post: 4279114, member: 68511"] I haven't gotten my books yet - on order - but from what I've read, I'm excited about 4E based upon many of the aspects that the article - and some users - stated. First, I have played for about 30 years and, to be honest, I don't have time like I used to. I have a family to do stuff with, house to take care of, job to attend, bills to pay, etc. My old circle of D&D friends are in the same boat. We get together once every 3-4 months for a day of gaming - drink beer, eat pretzels, catch up with each other. We like to kill stuff, get treasure - typical dungeon dive. Travel times to my house (where we play) are from 1-2.5 hours - so it's not easy to get us all together. We want to maximize the time we have together. D&D is the catalyst that gets us to re-connect, and we want to enjoy the time. With that in mind, I hope 4E is a simpler, more streamlined game. I found 3E to be great on one level (lots of detail), but then it got caught up in so many rules, it could get frustrating. As the (usually) DM, preparing for a session was a lot of work. Trying to understand what the heck each monster actually did, feats, etc. - was quite time consuming - especially for high levels. And when you don't play that often, it really can bog down a game. I'm a little worried that combat is going to be more confusing, but I haven't tried it yet to know for sure. But I don't mind a long fight, as long as people are doing stuff, making decisions, etc. It's when you sit there waiting for the cleric to review his 100+ spell options (my slowest player has a 16th level cleric in 3E - he can really make things go slow, but in his defense, he doesn't know the spells that well since we don't play that often) that it gets frustrating. Also, we had one player who played with us for a while when 3E came out, and he knew things far better than the rest of us. It was really frustrating to me as the DM - and the other players - as he'd pull rules out of his butt that none of us knew (of course, he never helped me out much when there were rules that might have helped me as the DM!). It was the nature of things since he played so much, but it wasn't that fun to the rest of us. All in all, 3E is difficult because we didn't play that often together. Knowing spells, skills, feats, etc. - was a new experience every time. I rarely wrote my own adventures (which I used to do all the time) because I didn't know the rules as well as I did in 2.0 - when we played a lot more and things weren't as complex. No doubt there will be things we miss - races, spells, whatever. But that happens every edition. But there will probably be additions we love. If streamlining the gaming system means more 'casual', it will likely be a winner in our group. Some people will prefer the deep complexity of 3E, and that's great for them. What's 'better' will simply be what fits a person's situation. For my friends and I it's about getting together and enjoying each other's company. Drink beer, talk about the kids, jobs, old times, whatever. It's a social experience and we have a blast. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic about 4E. [/QUOTE]
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