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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4282391" data-attributes="member: 2067">Well, 3e did have that whole "sliding scale" thing, in theory. It was as complex as you wanted it to be, because you could always simplify and abstract things out -- part of the idea was that it would be easier to simplify something complex than it would be to complexify something relatively simple (if you were looking for that complexity). Because Wizards, at the time, didn't want to tell you what kind of game to run, they would do all the "hard work" and leave you to make it easier if you wanted (which should be pretty easy!).That was the promise. In practice, a combination of fans who were gaga over the complexity and a failure to deliver in all areas of that promise (like with accounting for treasure and in high-level play) meant that 3e ended up carrying the "complex" tag even slightly further than previous editions, probably, with its "place for everything and everything in its place" ideal.3e wasn't trying to be the PS3 or even the Xbox 360. It was more like it was trying to be a home computer, like a Linux PC: something that worked well that you could tinker with endlessly. It was, at best, trying to be quintessential D&D. Take all the bits from the past, and reassemble it in a way that made it work like it was always kind of supposed to from the beginning.In many respects, it succeeded wildly at that goal. Not that it didn't still have its problems, but its problems were things that D&D had ALWAYS struggled with (high level play, complexity, blah blah blah). These problems weren't un-solvable, and they didn't require all of 4e's fiery burnination to accomplish, but heck, if you need a new edition anyway, why not solve those problems with it. With the hammer of 4e, every problem looked like a nail, after all.4e doesn't want to be quintessential D&D, at all. It doesn't want to be a ruleset that you take and play with as you like. Not even a little. It wants you to play, not tinker. In pursuit of that goal, it becomes not just simpler, but simplistic. The comparison to the Wii is apt, though we're still lacking the Development Kit for 4e. It's not a ruleset that lets you do what you want, its a ruleset that gives you what it thinks you want. And, given WotC's famous ability for market research, its probably right, more often than not.3e wasn't the PS3, or the Xbox 360. 3e was a hacker's computer. 4e is kind of like the Wii, but the comparison looses some momentum in that the Wii isn't replacing anyone's computer, while 4e is replacing 3e (at least for WotC, if not for everyone). To imagine the rage of the 3e fans, imagine if, for instance, you had to write your ENWorld post using the Wii's Internet channel and that little on-screen keyboard. If you had to buy a Dev Kit to program it. If, every time you wanted to IM a friend, you would need four sets of codes that could only be acquired offline to identify their machine, your machine, their IMing program, and yours. Imagine if you would have to buy one of Nintendo's $30 perhiphials shaped like a shopping cart to use Amazon.This is part of the reason some of the 3e fans are ardently against 4e. It's not (just) that 4e isn't something their not interested in. Its that 4e means that something they ARE interested in is in danger of becoming so small, so niche, and so pigeonholed that, like most earlier editions, it becomes harder to actually get people to play it. And without a community, any table-top game is dead in the water.Luckily, the excitement for Pathfinder means that, at least for another year or two, 3e can probably hold out, and can maybe even drift alongside 4e, informing it as it goes. It is, after all, the Open Source D&D. I think my reaction to 4e is something akin to a hacker looking at an iPhone. It has some neat features I want, but it also locks me into some things I absolutely don't want (minis-heavy combat, weird PC/NPC/Monster interactions, bland repetitive abilities, etc) So I'll tinker with it, beat it around, void my warranty, and, in the end, do what I want with it. I think that WotC is infinitely smarter than Apple in that they basically encourage you do to that, even though the game doesn't really want you to do that.</blockquote>

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