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4E is for casuals, D&D is d0med
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4283211" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>4e's implied setting is much stronger than 3e's was. 3e's was kind of "Here are some races and some classes that D&D has had before, and they all work together, or not." 4e's is kind of "In a world....where empires have fallen and dragons are born...come heroes...who have destinies."</p><p></p><p>4e is more like Arcana Unearthed/Evolved in this respect, because it makes deliberate choices, omissions, and proper nouns that exist outside of name-dropping. It has a theme, a feel, a mood, a beginning and an end. 3e didn't have much of that straight out of the box, which both let you add your own, and MADE you add your own, if you wanted it.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, with the choice to focus on new IP, the "generic mythos" creatures have been pushed a bit farther back in favor of "D&D specific" creatures. </p><p></p><p>All this helps create an atmosphere of "Play Our Game" more than "Play Your Game."</p><p></p><p>It's still a continuum, not a binary choice, but the difference is real nonetheless.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think tabletop RPGing has a few fundamental barriers that stop it from being loved by "the masses," and that the closest we'll ever get is the World of Warcraft/Videogame boom that's happening right now.</p><p></p><p>#1: It requires a lot of time. Even a "casual" campaign is going to require a 4-hour block of time spent just playing. Attention spans of most poeple are difficult to maintain for that long on one thing.</p><p></p><p>#2: It requires schedule coordination. That 4-hour block of time needs to be free for at least six people to play a game of D&D4. That's hard to get even amongst people who are generally good with the idea.</p><p></p><p>#3: It is an active thing, not a passive thing. It demands a higher level of interaction than WoW or any other videogame, a level that not everyone is going to be eager to do (especially over something like pretending to be an elf in a magical faery world). Related, it is a social thing: every one of those six people must contribute. This means that it cannot be one person's vision, and that it will, of necessity, lack a certain focus.</p><p></p><p>#4: It can never be topical. In addition to the "six people" thing, D&D won't really be able to address the way that normal people are feeling. D&D can't tackle the issues that at least Americans have to deal with: Contentious elections, economic hardship, emerging class struggles, questions of freedom and safety, the notion of just violence and unjust violence, of honesty and deception in places of power, of the responsibility of the media....let alone big human issues like trust, fidelity, fear, romance, war...</p><p></p><p>You might get a Pratchett novel that can take on these issues, and you could definitely get a Dickens novel or a Scorsese flick that looks at these issues, but six people pretending to be elves for four hours a week says more about those six people than it ever could about the world in general. A good DM might be able to inject a campaign with the feel of one or two of these things at a time, but it doesn't really help "the masses" since RPGing isn't a spectator event.</p><p></p><p>Games in general can deal with those, even. But I'm pretty sure D&D and tabletop gaming can not. Practically speaking, this is a niche, and it will always be a niche (though it might be a niche that is always around). </p><p></p><p>You can get popular and complex, but you need the third ingredient of INTERESTING, and you need to ditch the idea of simplicity (though embracing convenience is a good plan).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4283211, member: 2067"] 4e's implied setting is much stronger than 3e's was. 3e's was kind of "Here are some races and some classes that D&D has had before, and they all work together, or not." 4e's is kind of "In a world....where empires have fallen and dragons are born...come heroes...who have destinies." 4e is more like Arcana Unearthed/Evolved in this respect, because it makes deliberate choices, omissions, and proper nouns that exist outside of name-dropping. It has a theme, a feel, a mood, a beginning and an end. 3e didn't have much of that straight out of the box, which both let you add your own, and MADE you add your own, if you wanted it. Furthermore, with the choice to focus on new IP, the "generic mythos" creatures have been pushed a bit farther back in favor of "D&D specific" creatures. All this helps create an atmosphere of "Play Our Game" more than "Play Your Game." It's still a continuum, not a binary choice, but the difference is real nonetheless. I think tabletop RPGing has a few fundamental barriers that stop it from being loved by "the masses," and that the closest we'll ever get is the World of Warcraft/Videogame boom that's happening right now. #1: It requires a lot of time. Even a "casual" campaign is going to require a 4-hour block of time spent just playing. Attention spans of most poeple are difficult to maintain for that long on one thing. #2: It requires schedule coordination. That 4-hour block of time needs to be free for at least six people to play a game of D&D4. That's hard to get even amongst people who are generally good with the idea. #3: It is an active thing, not a passive thing. It demands a higher level of interaction than WoW or any other videogame, a level that not everyone is going to be eager to do (especially over something like pretending to be an elf in a magical faery world). Related, it is a social thing: every one of those six people must contribute. This means that it cannot be one person's vision, and that it will, of necessity, lack a certain focus. #4: It can never be topical. In addition to the "six people" thing, D&D won't really be able to address the way that normal people are feeling. D&D can't tackle the issues that at least Americans have to deal with: Contentious elections, economic hardship, emerging class struggles, questions of freedom and safety, the notion of just violence and unjust violence, of honesty and deception in places of power, of the responsibility of the media....let alone big human issues like trust, fidelity, fear, romance, war... You might get a Pratchett novel that can take on these issues, and you could definitely get a Dickens novel or a Scorsese flick that looks at these issues, but six people pretending to be elves for four hours a week says more about those six people than it ever could about the world in general. A good DM might be able to inject a campaign with the feel of one or two of these things at a time, but it doesn't really help "the masses" since RPGing isn't a spectator event. Games in general can deal with those, even. But I'm pretty sure D&D and tabletop gaming can not. Practically speaking, this is a niche, and it will always be a niche (though it might be a niche that is always around). You can get popular and complex, but you need the third ingredient of INTERESTING, and you need to ditch the idea of simplicity (though embracing convenience is a good plan). [/QUOTE]
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