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4E is for casuals, D&D is d0med
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<blockquote data-quote="Testament" data-source="post: 4283832" data-attributes="member: 21833"><p>Ah, so killing the EVIL monsters and taking their stuff. Gotcha.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Does roleplay need rules? How does a system encourage roleplaying in terms of character interaction? Creating rules for it, more often than not, just leads back to the hideous argument about rules DISCOURAGING roleplaying (Diplomacy skill, I'm looking at you again...)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have got to be kidding me. Dice or any kind of physical object at that point as an action resolution mechanic at that point are badwrongfun are they, since they remove you from behaving in character? See, I can be a reductionist too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's why there's a GM last time I checked, to change the flow and course of things. And if an adventure isn't supposed to provide encounters, then what is it supposed to do? Last time I checked, a dungeon of any kind is an adventure flowchart designed for the exclusive purpose of funelling players into the required area/events.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have taken a look at it, indeed I ran it under 1E rules (thank god I know some old gamers who own the relevant books) and made my players sign a waiver not to be angry at me or hurt me when they got killed again.</p><p></p><p>In terms of design its a good example of using non-combat challenges, and that's about it. I fail to see how its central to the core philosophy of D&D though, when in terms of implementation of that design its a steaming pile of highly radioactive, sarin-gas emitting feces. Indeed, the prospect of it EVER being central scares me and makes me glad I started with 3E. The sheer arbitrary nature of the encounters offends me in so many ways as both a player and a GM that I'm bewildered as to how anyone could possibly think it ever was a good adventure. You chose B in this situation out of A-Q? You're dead. You stood on tile 4 of 287? Dead, and so is he.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Testament, post: 4283832, member: 21833"] Ah, so killing the EVIL monsters and taking their stuff. Gotcha. Does roleplay need rules? How does a system encourage roleplaying in terms of character interaction? Creating rules for it, more often than not, just leads back to the hideous argument about rules DISCOURAGING roleplaying (Diplomacy skill, I'm looking at you again...) You have got to be kidding me. Dice or any kind of physical object at that point as an action resolution mechanic at that point are badwrongfun are they, since they remove you from behaving in character? See, I can be a reductionist too. That's why there's a GM last time I checked, to change the flow and course of things. And if an adventure isn't supposed to provide encounters, then what is it supposed to do? Last time I checked, a dungeon of any kind is an adventure flowchart designed for the exclusive purpose of funelling players into the required area/events. I have taken a look at it, indeed I ran it under 1E rules (thank god I know some old gamers who own the relevant books) and made my players sign a waiver not to be angry at me or hurt me when they got killed again. In terms of design its a good example of using non-combat challenges, and that's about it. I fail to see how its central to the core philosophy of D&D though, when in terms of implementation of that design its a steaming pile of highly radioactive, sarin-gas emitting feces. Indeed, the prospect of it EVER being central scares me and makes me glad I started with 3E. The sheer arbitrary nature of the encounters offends me in so many ways as both a player and a GM that I'm bewildered as to how anyone could possibly think it ever was a good adventure. You chose B in this situation out of A-Q? You're dead. You stood on tile 4 of 287? Dead, and so is he. [/QUOTE]
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