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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sinecure" data-source="post: 4283865" data-attributes="member: 37668">It sounds like you have had a fun time playing D&D.  I'm glad the game offered you the fun you have had, but I'm doubly glad it offered my friends and I the kinds of fun we had.  4E simply fails in most respects for us.  I'll take your experiences as a given and just say they have not been like that for us.  We spend only about 20% in combat.  The rest is a mix of character play, planning, and exploration.  I don't mean any disrespect here, but we call what you describe in your meat response "beginner play".  We spend a lot of time figuring out how to win - whatever that challenge may be.  Sometimes it is combat, some times problem solving, sometimes roleplaying intelligently, sometimes just making the right decisions.4e has compiled nearly all of these elements into single and complex skill roles.  Let me tell you, they are vastly unsatisfactory.  And that they don't include such challenges in their adventures just tells me they have no desire for the game to be more than combat scenario after combat scenario.  It's like they've taken Orc & Pie as a legitimate adventure design philosophy.  Tell you what.  If you want, I can set aside some time and collect a list of things I can think of they deliberately left out.  Again, I'm not trying to diss your play here.  We just do things differently in 2e.Dude, I apologize.  I thought, you're Hong, I bet he's being Hong.  (joshing me)Non sequitur?  Would this be the definition of roleplaying derivative from the acting school wherein the best actors DO NOT act in character, but deliberately unlike their character?  Operationally, we are on very different paths.  Operationally, D&D used to support multiple different ways of doing things.  Now they seem to be focused on one which seems to fit you nicely, but many others rather poorly.Again, we seem to be on very different sides of the coin.  ToH is a contentious design philosophy in D&D.  The original is just too tough.  Gygax did that time and again.  He'd put out adventures for highly seasoned vets as the first adventure after making a new RPG.  See Dangerous Journeys and Necropolis for example.  It's another great tomb and trap adventure that puts new players way out of their depth.  But to beat either you need to change the way you play.  Let me state, I like playing kick in the door occasionally.  I like that 2E offers this option to me.  I like even more that I can play all kinds of ways using the same rules during the same session.  I prefer less monotone play.</blockquote>

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