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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sinecure" data-source="post: 4284128" data-attributes="member: 37668">Then I apologize. I have to say the example isn't very fair.  Death trap with no rhyme or reason is a rather unpopular playstyle.  I'm not saying that's what we do.  But yes, we do have rules to enable use to play in the direction we are interested in.  If we want to hunt the great Kazeeker bird, we can. Finding clues, hunting down those who claim to have seen it, taking notes on it's behavior, the wild accounts of its powers.  That stuff doesn't lend itself to a skill system.  It works best (for us) by accumulating in character knowledge through in character actions.  That the DM may or may not have rules to assist him in keeping that play consistent is his business.  But yes, as a DM I certainly say it makes the game.  Without such, it can become rather dull.  Especially when core systems are built in to short circuit such.That's a lot of D&D.  Testing the players.  Or it wouldn't really be a game would it?  Testing players by forcing them OOC though is something I disagree with.  This can be solved by being up front with ones DM ahead of time.That's not exactly a scenario in my book.  That's potential mob kill, go back and find another way.  What I suggested cannot be done in 4E nor can really any in depth wilderness exploration.  It's Unfun. LoM is a pile of dung, pardon my French.  ToEE isn't all that great either, but it has no requirement it be played as you say.  You could just as easily ingratiate yourself and attempt to take it over assuming one of the head clerics positions or ingratiating yourself with one of the monster groups.  Then use the whole as a base of operations, power center for enacting more of your groups' goals.  Really, it didn't need to be kill everything room by room.  (check out Contxt's storyhour for a well run campaign of ToEE. On the DMs side at least)All adventures are unfocused.  Focus is a PC group decision.Not me, baby.  Dude, if you and your buddies want to spend the afternoon in imagination land rescuing cats from trees... I'm there for ya.  I'm not here to tell you what's fun.  I'm here for you to tell me.Yikes.  Let's just say I can't disagree with you more.  Yes, preparation is a hallmark of any good DM, but so is rolling with the changes.  You have to be able to think outside the box just like the Players.  Or your going to get left behind.  I'm not saying make up a dungeon on the fly made of feather because that's what the players want.  Grow from something you already have.  But if they change focus, change with them.That sounds possible.  It still doesn't make it a bad adventure.  It only makes it more like one best designed for Call of Cthulhu adventures.  The kind you never expect to come back from.  Except CoC adventures are full of train rides (some literally) and nowhere near as good.Better yet. In character, turn around and say, "This sucks, let's never come back here" and go do some other thing you've got on your PC group agenda.  It's not like anyone is forcing you to be in any one spot.  And if so, if it's not from repercussions of what your characters did, just tell the GM he sucks and walk out for real.Again, didn't say you couldn't.  Only that the current ones have been pretty sucky.  Last few years for 3rd.  Now in 4th even moreso.</blockquote>

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