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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sinecure" data-source="post: 4284259" data-attributes="member: 37668">I very much agree with the above.  4E is all about tactical combat.  And as a minis game, it's combat system is very good.  But as a "be your character" combat system, it fails.  D&D's previous combat system was boring.  It worked very well to force people into thinking of other ways to win fights.  And that's what really made it shine.  (yes, that it sucked so bad)Make something that actually allows one to stay in character, think more strategically, AND has the tactical options of 4E and you've got something.  As of now, this is system will largely appeal only to those who like DDM.  That's kind of been my point.[/off topic?]Um, because the 2E provides rules for the other 80% of the game?  Have you bothered to read the rest of what I posted?  And 2E combat is fun, but I'll admit it needs to be houseruled. As is it doesn't work all that well.Well, this answers it.  You haven't.  This really is why I think most players going smilingly to 4E like Cadfan above are pretty much ignorant about what roleplaying means two steps beyond combat.  In what world can one live where the only interesting details, the 1000's of little extras that will be added to 4E, are only combat-related.  I know, I know. More rituals will be added to.  Man, listen, there is no such thing as an interesting world played with the TWERPS system.  It's frictionless.  Pointless.  And it feels absolutely pointless during play.  That nothing in a game requires complexity outside of combat?  Can anyone hear me that might just for a glimmer understand that a roleplaying game might require more detailed rules for, oh let's say, everything beyond combat!?  I get. I get.  I get.  No one needs rules for roleplaying.  Guess what?  No one needs crazy 1000's of options for combat either.  But those you want don't you?  Can you maybe shake off the glamour of the current new edition to see at least that point?  That maybe some of us actually enjoy playing a world with more rules than a coin flip?BTW, I noticed that arrows are gone from the PHB.  Ammunition isn't tracked.  Neither is food, I bet too.  At least they kept coins, but that's treasure.  Somehow I bet many will house rule those away too.  And Encumbrance.  In the books, but not on the Character Sheets.  Important?  Drowning or Suffocation?  I personally couldn't find those in the books either.  It's not like a want rules for everything.  3E made a real cock up of that.  But the idea that I need absolutely no rules but a skill check is just as brash.  Again, the next PHB I hope they release a whole new set of options for play.  No non-combat rules w/o a skill list.  New combat system.  New magic system.  All optional and swappable for what they've published so far.  That would be nice.</blockquote>

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