D&D 4E 4e Keyword fixes - please discuss

[Siberys]

Yeah, that looks good. I'll be adopting this soon.

 

[The Little Raven]

Arlough, the online Compendium is incomplete in the rules text of the Immune entry from both the PHB3 and Rules Compendium. Here's the missing paragraph:

Immunity to one part of a power does not make a creature immune to other parts of the power. For example, when a creature that is immune to thunder is hit by a power that deals both thunder damage and pushes the target, the creature takes no damage, but the power can still push it.

So, if you are immune to one damage type and you get hit by a power that has two damage types, you are not immune to any of the damage. If a creature is hit with a power that deals 20 Cold/Necrotic damage and it has Immune Cold and Resist Necrotic 5, it will take 15 damage, because it is not immune to all parts of the power and has to use its lowest resistance against the power (since immunity is really just a level of resistance).

Against Combined Damaged Types A creature's resistance is ineffective against combined damage types unless the creature has resistance to each of the damage types, and then only the weakest of the resistance applies.

 

[Arlough]

Arlough, the online Compendium is incomplete in the rules text of the Immune entry from both the PHB3 and Rules Compendium.

I thought the whole point of the compendium was it is supposed to have the most up to date rules and rule text.
Also, I had forgotten the clarification in PHB3. Thanks for pointing that out.

Immunity to one part of a power does not make a creature immune to other parts of the power. For example, when a creature that is immune to thunder is hit by a power that deals both thunder damage and pushes the target, the creature takes no damage, but the power can still push it.

So, if you are immune to one damage type and you get hit by a power that has two damage types, you are not immune to any of the damage. If a creature is hit with a power that deals 20 Cold/Necrotic damage and it has Immune Cold and Resist Necrotic 5, it will take 15 damage, because it is not immune to all parts of the power and has to use its lowest resistance against the power (since immunity is really just a level of resistance).

I believe in the very last sentence the rule above actually states specifically that, in the case of a power of multiple types, one of which you have an immunity to, you will not deal any damage, but you will be able to execute effects of that attack. So in the example of the power that deals 20 Necrotic/Cold and the creature has Immune Cold and Resist Necrotic 5, it will take no damage at all.

Additionally, since Poison is both a damage keyword and an effect keyword [PHB1.055 - keywords], poison immunity would also eliminate any effects of the attack.

I don't like the idea that a multi-element attack, given how hard they are to come by anyway, would still deal no damage. And, I don't like one immunity stopping all damages and effects from an attack, especially the most common immunity.

So I do think that I am going to stick with a new damage keyword to replace poison damage with, as well as replacing all damage immunities with Resist All so the resistance stacking rules apply instead.

But thank you very much for finding that reference for me. I was so busy looking for the rules clarification to be in the rules updates that didn't even look in PHB2 or PHB3.

 

[The Little Raven]

I believe in the very last sentence the rule above actually states specifically that, in the case of a power of multiple types, one of which you have an immunity to, you will not deal any damage, but you will be able to execute effects of that attack. So in the example of the power that deals 20 Necrotic/Cold and the creature has Immune Cold and Resist Necrotic 5, it will take no damage at all.

In order to be immune to damage with multiple damage types, you have to have immunity to ALL of the damage types. If you do not have immunity to both Cold and Necrotic when you take damage from a power that deals both, you are not immune to the damage. You have to use your lowest level of resistance against damage that has multiple types, as specifically called out in the Combined Damage Types section I also quoted.

 

[Arlough]

You are right. An older update left immunity as being absolute, but that has since been fixed.
But, since I am changing things a bit anyway, I think it just cleans things up to have one phrase for all quantifiable values (damage) and one for non-quantifiable value (effects). So...

Resist is for damage, but can go all the way up to all.
Immune is for effects.

Poison is now an effect keyword.
Toxic is a damage keyword that replaces poison as a damage keyword.

Now, in going along the same lines, should undead be immune poison, or resist all toxic, or both, or what?
Should there be a difference between corporeal and incorporeal undead?

Of course this can be handled on a case by case basis, but I am looking for input on my general policy. Thoughts?