D&D 4E 4e, minis... and some of my thoughts

[pawsplay]

Any "minis-centric" game can be run without them, using approximation, imagination, or GM fiat. Support for miniatures is in my view a plus, as it gives a strong reality to the game independent of the players or the DM, which in my view helps gameplay and the kind of storytelling done in RPGs.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Any "minis-centric" game can be run without them, using approximation, imagination, or GM fiat. Support for miniatures is in my view a plus, as it gives a strong reality to the game independent of the players or the DM, which in my view helps gameplay and the kind of storytelling done in RPGs.

As one of the mini-heavy players, except for some horror-themed stuff (CoC, Ravenloft), I think it's easier to remove mini-emphasis than to re-introduce mini-related rules.

I can always start to handwave stuff. But handwaving something, that's meant to make it more precise (i.e. tabletop + minis) is somewhat absurd. So... I support a mini-centric game. And it means I get more 1) painting or 2) more sweets (i.e. killed monsters ).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Heck, at DragonCon you had dealers trying to palm off recent commons a $1 a pop when they should have them 5- or 6-for-a-dollar at least.

5 or 6 for a dollar? Even the cheapest Ebay sellers manage at best 25 cents per common, and that's only because the rares are considered to retain most of the value in a pack. Common mniatures get undervalued in a collectible scheme, just like rare miniatures get overvalued -- it's both a good and a bad thing, but I think you expect too much.

 

[WayneLigon]

Common mniatures get undervalued in a collectible scheme, just like rare miniatures get overvalued -- it's both a good and a bad thing, but I think you expect too much.

Historically, conventions are where retailers dumped a lot of their overstock, so you used to be able to get some pretty darn good deals on things like that because they didn't want to haul it all home again.

 

[IceFractal]

Here's a little known fact (apparently, given the arguments I hear online): Minis are free, as long as you aren't playing in a sealed labratory "clean room".

By which I mean - use dice, use coins, use counters you print out, use scraps of paper with letters on them, use legos, use minis that aren't the same as the monsters, use M&Ms, or use whatever else is sitting around.

Minis are only as expensive as your desire to have "the right figure". While using the actual figures for the monsters may be more aesthetically pleasing, it isn't necessary, and I would think anyone who could run a game without minis could run a game using schematic minis.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Historically, conventions are where retailers dumped a lot of their overstock, so you used to be able to get some pretty darn good deals on things like that because they didn't want to haul it all home again.

Maybe so, but I've never been to any convention - Dragon, Gen, or smaller -- where miniatures were cheaper than Internet retailers. Sometimes I'd find a rare that was $1 less or so, but in general things tended towards the "significantly higher" range.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Realistically, though, how can minis NOT be required, given the logistics of a huge combat scenario?
(snip)
How on earth do you NOT use minis to represent this combat? Unless you want to just completely ignore all the distance, terrain, cover, and environmental details that make it interesting and just say something like this:

DM: "Okay, ranger, you can attack. Go ahead."
Ranger: "I attack, uh, goblin #4."
DM: "Roll."
Ranger: "Wait, how far away is the goblin?"
DM: "Doesn't matter. We aren't using minis. This is a role-playing game, dammit! Just attack."
Ranger: "(Sigh). I roll."

*cough, cough* Man, you're getting it everywhere. Let the crows have run of the field for a second and follow how the conversation goes with a competent GM.

DM: "Okay, ranger, you can attack. Go ahead."
Ranger: "I attack, uh, goblin #4."
DM: "Roll."
Ranger: "Wait, how far away is the goblin?"
DM: "About 80 feet, counting the distance you're shooting up the tree."
Ranger: "Great, that's inside one increment! *rolls*"

As with every single other thing in an RPG session that isn't represented with miniatures - city streets, non-hostile NPCs, weather, terrain, magical effects, the results of damaging blows - you describe it to the players using words.

I'm a little concerned that it's such a mind-boggling thing for you.

 

[Joker]

*cough, cough* Man, you're getting it everywhere. Let the crows have run of the field for a second and follow how the conversation goes with a competent GM.

DM: "Okay, ranger, you can attack. Go ahead."
Ranger: "I attack, uh, goblin #4."
DM: "Roll."
Ranger: "Wait, how far away is the goblin?"
DM: "About 80 feet, counting the distance you're shooting up the tree."
Ranger: "Great, that's inside one increment! *rolls*"

As with every single other thing in an RPG session that isn't represented with miniatures - city streets, non-hostile NPCs, weather, terrain, magical effects, the results of damaging blows - you describe it to the players using words.

I'm a little concerned that it's such a mind-boggling thing for you.

Same here, using descriptive text and imagination/memory you can quite easily do without mini's. We did it all of 2nd edition and a fair number of 3rd edition sessions.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Realistically, though, how can minis NOT be required, given the logistics of a huge combat scenario?

Counters, sketches on the battlemat / whiteboard / sheets of paper, or just a bunch of people who somehow manage to keep the entire situation in their heads?

Miniatures are not required for anything. Heck, I could quite easily play the various GW miniatures wargames with nothing but cardboard counters. (It wouldn't be anywhere near as fun as it is with figures, though, but D&D is a different thing.)

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Same here, using descriptive text and imagination/memory you can quite easily do without mini's. We did it all of 2nd edition and a fair number of 3rd edition sessions.

Well, that's cool if your group doesn't mind "collaborative storytelling" or whatever you want to call it. But to properly use the extensive combat rules in 3.5 minis of some sort are necessary. But if the group is all in agreement that it's fun to just adlib everything, that's cool.

It all depends on if you want to use the rules or not.