D&D 4E 4e needs a Definitive Guide

[Sadras]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I wish they would reproduce a concise

• PHB with the basic races & classes with the most popular/useful powers (no magical items or psionics)
• DMG from DMG 1 and 2, best advice from Chris Perkins re Epic Level Play and what not
• MM with updated math of the most useful/common beasts
• Treasure and Magical Item Vault, with multitudes of tables, interesting locations as treasure...and what not
• Options Book, which would contain Psionics (everything related), Strange Races...etc
• Planes Book dealing with all of them, including the prime material plane, and an updated final, finale, definitiva and teliko Orcus
• Revised great 4e adventure, one adventure for each tier of play (it does not have to be an adventure path) - to function as an example

7 books for 7 years (2008-2014), until 5e officially came out.
If they had to change the font size, exclude the over-animated art, and use up the entire page they could really include quite a lot of the very best 4e had to offer. I for one would purchase such a set.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

7 books for 7 years (2008-2014), until 5e officially came out.
If they had to change the font size, exclude the over-animated art, and use up the entire page they could really include quite a lot of the very best 4e had to offer. I for one would purchase such a set.

I'd probably buy something like that too, but there's not even a small chance it will happen.

 

[Erekose]

I could probably be convinced to buy a new "premium" printing of the 3 core rule book with fully integrated errata.

WotC have done it for all previous editions other than 4E. Presumably either it's too complicated (too much errata) or not enough expected sales (or both).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I could probably be convinced to buy a new "premium" printing of the 3 core rule book with fully integrated errata.

WotC have done it for all previous editions other than 4E. Presumably either it's too complicated (too much errata) or not enough expected sales (or both).

It's the age of the internet. Of course, 5e is new, so there's still time for a premium rulebook set. I wish there was a good offline (but downloadable) rules source, with the crud pared out.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It's the age of the internet. Of course, 5e is new, so there's still time for a premium rulebook set. I wish there was a good offline (but downloadable) rules source, with the crud pared out.

Yeah, its way too soon. They only started offering a reprint of some of the 3.x books now, 6 years after they went out of print. Heck, the AD&D stuff was out of print for as much as 25 years. It could easily be 10 years before they get around to doing a 4e reprint, if they do it.

 

[Manbearcat]

The guide should focus on telling players and DMs what the bare minimum is that they need to play the game the way it was meant to be played. It should not attempt to be comprehensive.

If I were going to create a guide for making 4e the best gaming experience it can be, I would focus on making sure the players (GM included) grok the fundamental 4e machinery (purpose and application) of the system and understand best practices (principles and techniques) which produce the high octane action/adventure pace and the thematic focus of 4e. In no particular order:

A. Skill Challenges

1) Stakes, player goals, genre tropes, and what the opposition actually is on a conflict by conflict basis.
2) Players telegraphing intent and the GMing techniques of fail forward/success with complication with (1) above as the foundation.
3) Scene framing, pacing, dramatic momentum, and coherent scene closure.


B. The Game Engine

1) Healing Surges (what these abstractly represent and how to use them, especially in Skill Challenges, to provoke tension and Big Damn Hero play)
2) The Keyword system (what these mean for the fiction, for the codified mechanics, and for GM adjudication)
3) Encounter and Daily resources (what these "mean" and the play experience they are meant to produce)
4) The Math (p 42 and monster/hazard creation)
5) The Encounter Budget system
6) The Rest/recharge mechanics (how to use/manipulate them to create the play experience you're looking for.
7) Forced, Tactical Movement, Terrain Interaction and how to create dynamic, exciting, and challenging player opposition (imperative that this is cogently and coherently explained at the concept level)
8) Exception-Based Design (and the logic/system expectations for those exceptions where GMs must make rulings)

There is plenty more (Ritual System, Disease Track, Immediate Reactions, Stealth, etc) but grokking each of these is so absolutely central to 4e play that they need to be clearly, cogently, and transparently canvassed. I think the rest is intuitive and/or needs less attention.

C. The Player Hooks or Game's Focus/Premise

1) Minor/Major Quests
2) Themes, Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies


D. General Principles

1) Open and close scenes dramatically and keep the pressure on and the pace up until the conflict is resolved.
2) Always focus play on what the players care about by way of their expression of their PCs (C above). Fill their lives with adventure that is centered around this and allow their decisions, the momentum of conflicts they resolve, and genre expectations to propel play.
3) Always push play towards conflict and escalate, escalate, escalate!
4) Keep battlefields large (abstracted out 2 to 3 times the real world measurements) and filled with stuff to interact with.


That looks pretty good off the top of my head.

 

[MoutonRustique]

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]
All of it looks very good.

I would, however, make a serious section about rituals - in many ways, they are the "spells and magic". That many thought 4e was "magic-less" is no coincidence. Rituals can be awesome, but they need a bit of work, and A LOT of explaining of what role they can play during ... well, play.

Things like how to adjudicate their use in skill challenges, pro-active benefits, etc, etc.

To me rituals are a lot like 4e itself - potentially AWESOME but so often mis-used or understood...

 

[Manbearcat]

[MENTION=6696971]I would, however, make a serious section about rituals - in many ways, they are the "spells and magic". That many thought 4e was "magic-less" is no coincidence. Rituals can be awesome, but they need a bit of work, and A LOT of explaining of what role they can play during ... well, play.

Things like how to adjudicate their use in skill challenges, pro-active benefits, etc, etc.

To me rituals are a lot like 4e itself - potentially AWESOME but so often mis-used or understood...

Good stuff. You don't have to do much convincing of me for this. Note that it was the first thing that I mentioned (honorable mention) in The Combat Engine that didn't make the cut as "quintessential 4e". I initially had it up there (pretty much for the reasons you listed). Both of my 1-30 games and both of my PBPs featured PCs that used them (to great effect).

However, in the end, I moved them out because:

1) They're siloed PC build tools that (while being 4e through and through) can (and likely are for plenty of groups) be entirely excised from play if your game doesn't feature any Wizards/Druids/Invokers or any PCs with RItual Caster feat.

2) You could put general advice on how to use them in Skill Challenges in that section (as DMG2 does).

3) Personally, I find them very well written (cogent and clear mechanics and fluff) and intuitive to use at the table.

That being said, again, if I were writing a "Quintessential 4e", and the page count allowed for it, I would have a section on Ritual Magic.

The only thing I'll quibble with in your post is that they are the "spells and magic" of 4e and that the reason that "people thought 4e was magicless." I think a considerable portion of this is the inability (or in some cases the unwillingness) to grok the Keyword System (which is paramount to groking 4e). That is why I put Keywords as 2 above. If the system is well-understood by all players at the table (concept and application), like all the things I listed above, it is a game-changer for the 4e experience. If it is not understood, it becomes an insidious blind-spot that proliferates throughout the table experience.

 

[cavalier973]

Mike "Sly Flourish" Shea had a buyer's guide for 4e products. It's out of date, now, of course; the Red Box Starter Set goes for over $100 on Amazon.com, now.

 

[MoutonRustique]

[snip]
However, in the end, I moved them out because:

1) They're siloed PC build tools that (while being 4e through and through) can (and likely are for plenty of groups) be entirely excised from play if your game doesn't feature any Wizards/Druids/Invokers or any PCs with RItual Caster feat.

2) You could put general advice on how to use them in Skill Challenges in that section (as DMG2 does).

3) Personally, I find them very well written (cogent and clear mechanics and fluff) and intuitive to use at the table.

All true. With regards to their inclusion or not, it then becomes a question of where we draw lines and why - which devolves to opinions, so not much to discuss. Your points are understood and quite valid.

[snip]
The only thing I'll quibble with in your post is that they are the "spells and magic" of 4e and that the reason that "people thought 4e was magicless." I think a considerable portion of this is the inability (or in some cases the unwillingness) to grok the Keyword System (which is paramount to groking 4e). That is why I put Keywords as 2 above. If the system is well-understood by all players at the table (concept and application), like all the things I listed above, it is a game-changer for the 4e experience. If it is not understood, it becomes an insidious blind-spot that proliferates throughout the table experience.

I can't fault what you say. In a sense, we're kind of both "preaching to the choir" here - feels like we're trying to out-convince each other of things we're both already sold on.

As a slight "correction", I was coming more from the "non-tactical / "real" magic-magic" aspect (as you can see, I am struggling with the correct words for the concept I am trying to convey... "real" magic-magic indeed... sheesh )

The spells that changed landscapes, allowed faster overland travel, disguised the entire party to infiltrate a ball, created castles, "rope trick", scrying, teleporting and plane shifting, etc. Those kinds of spells - as opposed to those with immediate tactical use (which were translated to powers). I heard a good deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the "loss" of these types of spells. I also believe that for many, that fireball used the same kind of resource as phantom steed really sold them on the fact that those were spells!. When they saw that 4e's fireball and phantom steed used different resources, one of them became "less a spell" (as a funny side-bit, which one wasn't a spell anymore changed from person to person ). It's not a viewpoint I think is correct, but it's one I've seen fairly often (even among those willing to give 4e a fair shake).

All this being said, what I found people didn't connect with is pretty heavily influenced by the people I had contact with - so our experiences could vary by a pretty big margin...