4e PHB2 Errors? Or maybe just issues I have with it...

[Spatula]

I'm not sure what else to call them, but I'm noticing some errors in the book already.

They're not errors - they appear to be quite intentional.

Moving on, the other error I noticed was in the Shaman's class description. In the description of the Spirit Companion, your choice of Companion type determines which at-will opportunity action you gain, and then says "you choose your remaining at-will as normal." However, this means that Shamans only get one real "at-will" power that they can use on their own turns. Plus, none of the sample Shaman builds seem to follow that restriction. What do you all think is correct, here?

The text is correct, your choice of spirit determines one of your at-will attacks, same as the warlock's pact determines one of that class' at-will attacks.

WotC_GregB, you are saying we have to purchase a new book to use wands with the bard? Not charming.

Did you have to purchase AV to use wands with the wizards and warlock?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

There were no wands with special powers in the PHB. There were only generic wands that contained arcane powers. The "Master's" wands and the like appeared in the AV. So there's really no reason to expect that there will be any special wands in PHB2. Until AV2 comes out, you can use the rules from the PHB to make bard wands, just as you can with warlocks and wizards.

 

[Tuft]

PHB2 Page 209: USING A MAGICAL INSTRUMENT (paraphrasing kinda) doesn't take up a slot, however to use its properties and powers you must be playing it appropriately. (it mentions strumming a lute and blowing a horn)

so it does take hands, or else you can't use it as an implement (which is listed under properties). Unless you can strum the lute with your teeth...

So how long time does it take to change back-and-forth between sword+shield and mandolin/lute/etc so that you can switch between your Weapon and Implement powers?

 

[Glyfair]

to eleaborate a little: PHB1 page 242 tells you explicitly how to make wands for ANY arcane power, the example wands in the PHB ALL follow these creation rules, there are no surprises. There is a chart for the level of wand, 1d6 per plus on critical, encounter arcane power as a daily with all associated key words. They didn't put bard wand powers in because the PHB1 covers how to make them (it might have been nice if they pointed this out in PHB2 though).

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I was surprised it took this long in the thread to be pointed out.

 

[the Jester]

How do you guys feel about wands as implements for bards in general though? I cannot say I like the concept (or even get the concept beyond some form of wand=conductor's baton reference).

Works for me.

In music, the term sometimes applies to the modern model of conductor's baton (the earlier staff and baton cantoral being heavier and thus unfit for precise gestures).

 

[Kinneus]

Moving on, the other error I noticed was in the Shaman's class description. In the description of the Spirit Companion, your choice of Companion type determines which at-will opportunity action you gain, and then says "you choose your remaining at-will as normal." However, this means that Shamans only get one real "at-will" power that they can use on their own turns. Plus, none of the sample Shaman builds seem to follow that restriction. What do you all think is correct, here?

I think what you're saying is that since your type of Companion Spirit determines two of your powers (Spirit's Fangs and Stalker's Strike for Stalker Spirits, or Spirit's Shield and Protecting Strike for Protector Spirits), that means both your At-Will choices are used up. You have an opportunity action and a regular At-Will, both determined by your choice of Spirit. That would mean, unless you were a Human, those five other At-Wills the boys at WOTC made would be utterly and completely useless. That would mean the Shaman would suck pretty hard.
Thankfully, you are incorrect in this matter.
The At-Will opportunity action (Spirit's Fangs or Spirit's Shield) is a class feature. It doesn't count against the two At-Wills you get to select, just like a Wizard's cantrips or a Cleric's Healing Word don't 'count' for their 1st-level powers. If you're a Shaman with a Protector Spirit, you get Spirit's Shield, Protecting Strike, and one other At-Will of your choice. If you're a Shaman with a Stalker Spirit, you get Spirit's Fangs, Stalker's Strike, and one other At-Will of your choice.
And, of course, if you're Human, you get Spirit's Fangs/Shield, Stalker's/Protecting Strike, and two other At-Wills of your choice.

 

[Elsidar]

D'oh!

Not one single afternoon after I had started this thread, did I see that I had missed a whole section of description in the Shaman Companion.

My bard "issues" still stand. While it makes sense that the special "Master" wands wouldn't show up in a PHBX, I don't like the split between PHB items and AV items with only this item category, it seems.

The big problem I have with bard implements is that, with the instruments, at least, they're the only implement that requires two hands to use (assuming wizards, invokers, and druids can cast spells out of them one-handed). This means, for a bard with a mix of implement and weapon powers, as soon as he finds a magic instrument that performs (sorry) better than his wand as an implement, he has to worry about swapping two hand's worth of equipment in mid-battle, or not using one kind of power while he has the other equipment out.

Of course, now that I'm tossing these thoughts around, it comes to mind; how would quick-draw interact with all this swapping?

~Elsidar

 

[WalterKovacs]

On quick draw: It does not reduce the cost of putting items away. Unless you drop items, putting something away costs a minor action, while the item you are using to attack you draw for free. The problem is the shield, which costs a standard to stow or pull out. This means that if you are going to be using an instrument, and especially if you want to go back and forth between melee and ranged, you probably won't be able to use a shield, or you'll want signing swords to use with the sheild.

Assuming you can use certain instruments 1-handed (certain wind instruments perhaps?) you could effectively treat the instrument like a wand. In that case it's possible with a light shield to require no action to swap between sword and implement.

The basic idea is that with a light shield (but not a heavy shield) you can hold an item in the shield hand, but cannot be wielding the item [i.e. use it to attack]. So, you would use free actions to put the item in your main hand into your off hand and vice versa and you'd go from sword and shield to wand and shield.

Ultimately, the bard is given three implement types, the songblade being useful for being able to switch between melee and ranged easily, the wand which is useful for multiclassing purposes since it is shared by warlocks and wizards, and the instrument which is useful for out of combat reasons (in addition to their own powers, they are useful as foci for bard rituals).

 

[Spatula]

Horns FTW. But yeah, the instrument implements seem rather unwieldy to use in combat, unless you don't mind forgoing the shield and have no desire to enter into melee (which is kindof a cool image: the lute-strumming bard belting out blasts of thunder with his musical instrument). Songblades are where it's at, and they're available from the start.

 

[Elsidar]

The bard can hold a sword in one hand and a wand in the other. If your off hand uses a light shield, he can hold a wand in that hand. If he uses the wand, he just loses the shield benefit for a round.

The basic idea is that with a light shield (but not a heavy shield) you can hold an item in the shield hand, but cannot be wielding the item [i.e. use it to attack]. So, you would use free actions to put the item in your main hand into your off hand and vice versa and you'd go from sword and shield to wand and shield.

Assuming the top quote is possible (you can use an item held in the same hand as a shield if you give up the shield's bonus), would a bard wearing two shields have to worry about swapping at all? He'd have to worry about looking damn silly, but it could technically work, yes?

I don't think I'd do this with any bard I played in a serious game, but I'm curious if it would be passable, for the goofier games.