D&D 4E 4e Ranger: New God of Damage? Armor Splinter + Blade Cascade + High Wisdom Ranger

[Ipissimus]

Ok, I didn't think this was a real problem at first, but the many threads have convinced me it can be (assuming an entire group of players optimizes for this).

An alternative to fixing it other than capping at 5 hits could be something along the lines of 'This power always misses on a natural roll of 1-4'. That could bring the math back in line no matter how much anyone optimizes but still leaves room for that awesome lucky shot your players will talk about for years.

 

[MindWanderer]

The charopt weren't given the full rules, just a few criticals area so that they could review the game, IIRC.
Anyway, the numbers are on the 4e charopt board; you can check the maths if you wish

That and stuff kept changing up until the last minute. Careful Attack was Dex+4 to hit, 1[W]+Dex damage at DDXP; Dex+4 to hit, 1[W] damage after the DDXP characters were revised; and finally Dex+2 to hit, 1[W] damage in print. That's a lot of revision in the last couple of months before print. Blade Cascade may have been similar--after all, it's based on Avalanche of Blades from ToB, which is generally considered craptastic.

 

[Nifft]

No. This kind of thinking is what led to the ELH being the broken, buggy pile of crap that it was. "Winning" just means that 99.[many 9's]% of the population of the multiverse is less awesome than you. It does not mean that for the 0.[many 0's]1% which is on par with you, that encounters should be trivial or decided before they've begun.

In the long term, people WILL get characters up to super-high levels, and they'll want encounters to be as exciting and challenging as always. Witness people killing Kyuss and Demogorgon in the Paizo APs. The system should assume that Kyuss and Demogorgon will be decent opponents at the top end, not creatures that you can roll over in 1-2 rounds.

Well, I've left a bunch of things out, so let me explain in some more detail.

This guy is optimized to beat Orcus, who has a few interrupts (but none which are applicable). It wouldn't work against a Dracolich, who is a mere level 18 foe, but who can use a Stun blast as an interrupt when bloodied. There are surely other foes against whom it wouldn't work, and there may be allies Orcus could have nearby who can negate this Ranger's advantages.

IMHO the biggest broken thing in this scenario is the teleportation. If the Ranger had to get adjacent to Orcus by conventional means, he'd be having quite a hard time setting up his attacks.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Gargoyle]

Hmm, the ability to teleport ain't the problem, the problem is clearly Blade Cascade's infinite attacks.

I was surprised when I didn't see even a relatively high cap on the number of attacks you can make with Blade Cascade (half your level seems like a good limit). Even if the damage weren't crazy, waiting around for one player to roll dice all day against some low AC high HP brute isn't much fun for everyone else.

 

[chaotix42]

Moreover, there are a lot of examples of simple poor design present in 4E. One example is the tarrasque's grounding aura. At first glimpse, it appears to be the perfect thing against fliers; however, a second glimpse reveals the presence of the Far Shot feat, which, combined with a longbow and a flying creature, re-enabled the kiting of the tarrasque.

Well the Tarrasque is quite fast. All it would have to do is move forward and then you'd be in the aura, suddenly with a fly speed of 1 and rather unlikely to escape without teleportation or flat out landing and running.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I had a bit of a brainstorm.

If you allow this power to only make one main-hand and one off-hand attack per foe, it suddenly becomes balanced against the rangers other close-burst 1 powers (unless you manage to get reach). It does more damage than most of the others, but the others all have secondary effects, and it's balanced by the potential for it to be stopped early if you used it in the wrong situation.

Mind you, it still does end up being potentially too weak if you're not optimized and only really balanced if you do.

 

[Darth Cyric]

If you allow this power to only make one main-hand and one off-hand attack per foe, it suddenly becomes balanced against the rangers other close-burst 1 powers (unless you manage to get reach).

Which would make it useless.

The best way to "fix" it would be to give cumulative -1 penalties to hit with each attack after the first.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Which would make it useless.

Not crazy how it is now, but not useless. If someone really does want to min-max to a high degree, there's a chance he gets 4[w]+twice mods on each target within weapon reach, which is better raw damage than any of his other AOE attacks. It ranges from an average of slightly under 5[w] + 5 * mods if you need a 9+ to hit, to 14[w] + 14*mods if you only miss on a 1, AND you have 7+enemies around you.

The best way to "fix" it would be to give cumulative -1 penalties to hit with each attack after the first.

Statistically, my version does more damage than yours does, at all possible hit bonuses.

 

[Darth Cyric]

Statistically, my version does more damage than yours does, at all possible hit bonuses.

Not to a single target, it doesn't.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Not to a single target, it doesn't.

So use something else on a single target. Duh.

Also - my version is about 1[w]+1/2 mods behind your version against a single target, it just doesn't have the possibility of a crazy explosion of damage, and doesn't reward insane levels of min-maxing.