4E Ravenloft

Noted. :)

I love the Ravenloft concept. I have only my understanding of the Wizards R&D approach to 4th edition to guide my guess about what they'll do to Ravenloft in order to release it as a 4th edition setting.

If Wizards of the Coast releases Ravenloft as the campaign setting for one cycle (year), I predict they'll make major changes on the order of the changes where the Great Wheel cosmology morphed in to the Astral Sea & Elemental Chaos.

This is just my prediction and if it bothers anyone then I suppose you can pray that I don't know Wizards methods well enough to forecast accurately.

I think you are right that the nature of 4E needs to be considered. It probably won't mesh as easily with a full fledged Ravenloft Setting as 3E or 2E; but it is still doable in my opinion.

Say they do end up releasing a complete Ravenloft setting; from a marketing standpoint, is it really a good idea to do an overhaul of the setting? The only reason to release Ravenloft is because it has a built in audience: hard core Ravenloft Fans. It probably isn't going to appeal to people outside of that group as much anyways, so why meddle with it? I'll be honest here, the only reason why I like Ravenloft, and would love to see a 4E version, is because it was the first game I ever ran; I grew up running Ravenloft Modules, reading Ravenloft Novels, and Absorbing the Van Richten Guide Books. I think what they should do for things like Dark Sun, Spell Jammer and Ravenloft, is create a "Classics Line". They should keep the fluff relatively untouched, but update the mechanics for 4E.
 

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is it really a good idea to do an overhaul of the setting?
Since even the fans acknowledge that the setting was sometimes hard to use for more than one-off games, I'd say yes.

The only reason to release Ravenloft is because it has a built in audience: hard core Ravenloft Fans.
Or you do it for the same reason they released Expedition to Castle Ravenloft: Because at its heart, Ravenloft has some really great ideas, some classic villains, cool set pieces, bitching monsters and style to spare.

It probably isn't going to appeal to people outside of that group as much anyways, so why meddle with it?
The people in that group already have their Ravenloft material and are hardly guaranteed sales. They aren't super-relevant in terms of strategic planning.

I'll be honest here, the only reason why I like Ravenloft, and would love to see a 4E version, is because it was the first game I ever ran; I grew up running Ravenloft Modules, reading Ravenloft Novels, and Absorbing the Van Richten Guide Books. I think what they should do for things like Dark Sun, Spell Jammer and Ravenloft, is create a "Classics Line". They should keep the fluff relatively untouched, but update the mechanics for 4E.
That kind of thing is really best left for Dragon/Dungeon articles, IMO.

An actual line needs to be able to be picked up off the shelf by someone who's never heard of it before, its awesomeness immediately conveyed and able to be taken home and used without having to rethink how D&D is played by the group before it can be enjoyed. (Further afield stuff is better left for third party publishers like Mongoose and Goodman, both of whom are straying off the reservation from the PoL setting.)

Ravenloft is (yet another) the original Points of Lighting setting: Player characters and the few non-hostile NPCs huddle together around their guttering flames while a world full of indifferent-at-best (but probably hostile) THINGS wait out in the darkness. Beating back the darkness is a temporary victory at best, and escape is almost unthinkable.

In previous editions, Ravenloft needed a whole bunch of tacked on new rules to stop the players from just reaching for the Players Handbook and saying "I've got the answer right here -- NOOOOO problem." But 4E removes most of those Get Out of Hell Free cards from the table.

I think relaunching Ravenloft would be terribly easy: Just create an anthology of baronies, islands and the like (many of which would formally have been seen in previous editions), but instead of creating some sort of Evil Soup they all float in, let them just exist in their own standalone (or contiguous) environments in the larger context of the World.

Darklords always had their own quirky ways of closing off their domains. Most (or all) of the villains in the Ravenloft anthology book would have a similar power. But while in previous editions, many player characters knew these were all linked together in some fashion, utilizing the underlying "mists of Ravenloft," there would be no such assumption that this giant briar hedge was related to that army of watching wolves or those vanishing paths up the mountainside.

It could still all be optionally linked together somehow -- Strahd or Azalin, as always, provide good mechanisms for this -- but I see no problem with dropping in any of the old domains into even a perfectly ordinary setting. Heck, depending on how dark and dangerous the wilderness is in your campaign, you could enjoy the prospect of your player characters running eagerly into a darklord's domain ... for "safety." :devil:

The cosmological underpinnings of Ravenloft might have been interesting to speculate on, but I'll bet that most games actually revolved around surviving and escaping various domains. And that ports over extremely easily.
 

Since even the fans acknowledge that the setting was sometimes hard to use for more than one-off games, I'd say yes..

I think this reflects a minority opinion among fans. Personally I never had any difficulty running full length campaigns. Most of the GMs I know who ran it never ran into any difficulty either.


Or you do it for the same reason they released Expedition to Castle Ravenloft: Because at its heart, Ravenloft has some really great ideas, some classic villains, cool set pieces, bitching monsters and style to spare...
The people in that group already have their Ravenloft material and are hardly guaranteed sales. They aren't super-relevant in terms of strategic planning.

Sure. This is true, but I think you under estimate the amount of enthusiasm and sales it would generate among the Ravenloft fans. For those of use who love Ravenloft and have moved on to 4E, I can't think of anything more exciting than Domains of Dread being released for the new system.



That kind of thing is really best left for Dragon/Dungeon articles, IMO.

An actual line needs to be able to be picked up off the shelf by someone who's never heard of it before, its awesomeness immediately conveyed and able to be taken home and used without having to rethink how D&D is played by the group before it can be enjoyed. (Further afield stuff is better left for third party publishers like Mongoose and Goodman, both of whom are straying off the reservation from the PoL setting.)..

I don't think the Core Ravenloft Setting would be all that difficult for newcomers to understand. I was a newcomer to it before, and found it easier to comprehend than Forgotten Realms or Dark Sun.

Ravenloft is (yet another) the original Points of Lighting setting: Player characters and the few non-hostile NPCs huddle together around their guttering flames while a world full of indifferent-at-best (but probably hostile) THINGS wait out in the darkness. Beating back the darkness is a temporary victory at best, and escape is almost unthinkable..)..

Or it could be a complete points of light setting unto itself. In fact the nature of Raveloft makes it particularly well suited to the points of light concept.

In previous editions, Ravenloft needed a whole bunch of tacked on new rules to stop the players from just reaching for the Players Handbook and saying "I've got the answer right here -- NOOOOO problem." But 4E removes most of those Get Out of Hell Free cards from the table...)..

Many of those elements wouldn't be needed then. But you would probably want to introduce some modifications to Horror-themed creatures in order to make it more interesting. Would also want rules on fear, horror, and powers checks.

I think relaunching Ravenloft would be terribly easy: Just create an anthology of baronies, islands and the like (many of which would formally have been seen in previous editions), but instead of creating some sort of Evil Soup they all float in, let them just exist in their own standalone (or contiguous) environments in the larger context of the World....)..

I think the concept of domains and dark lords is really what drove the setting. Gave it its own feel. Otherwise just play in a normal setting and focus more on horror.

It could still all be optionally linked together somehow -- Strahd or Azalin, as always, provide good mechanisms for this -- but I see no problem with dropping in any of the old domains into even a perfectly ordinary setting. Heck, depending on how dark and dangerous the wilderness is in your campaign, you could enjoy the prospect of your player characters running eagerly into a darklord's domain ... for "safety." :devil:

The cosmological underpinnings of Ravenloft might have been interesting to speculate on, but I'll bet that most games actually revolved around surviving and escaping various domains. And that ports over extremely easily.

I would still like to see the old setting brought into the new rules system. I really liked it a lot.

Most of games revolved around all different kinds of things; just like any other campaign setting. That was the trick to running an ongoing game, don't rely on Dark Lords, and escaping domains: that gets boring fast. There were all kinds of other possibilities: Heroes who were part of special orders, murder mysteries, Exploration campaigns, etc.
 


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