D&D 4E 4E Rules first Role-Play second?

[Jib]

With all our hopes and dreams invested on 4th Edition my greatest fear is that the books will avoid the "Role-Play" interaction that is so vital to many campaigns. If you think about it they call MMO's "Role-Playing Games" but there is little interaction. The games just involve killing things, grabbing loot, creating items, and performing quests that have already been done 1000 times before. With table top RPGs the game caters to the players. You as the player in D&D get to be in the spot light. You are the star!

I hope the rules are great but I also hope that the books speak directly to the issue of how to create a character based on the idea of "Role-Play" not min-max for rules and character advancement.

What is your take on this topic? So far from what I have read and heard the designers seem to be engaged it this type of game but then again they might naturally bring this kind of play to the game table.

 

[GlassJaw]

The games just involve killing things, grabbing loot, creating items, and performing quests

A tried and tried formula. I'm all for it.

You don't need rules for role-playing. Every group will incorporate as much or as little as deemed necessary.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

With all our hopes and dreams invested on 4th Edition my greatest fear is that the books will avoid the "Role-Play" interaction that is so vital to many campaigns. If you think about it they call MMO's "Role-Playing Games" but there is little interaction. The games just involve killing things, grabbing loot, creating items, and performing quests that have already been done 1000 times before. With table top RPGs the game caters to the players. You as the player in D&D get to be in the spot light. You are the star!

Because the GM makes the process of killing things, grabbing loot, creating items, and performing quests fun and interesting to you.

Unless the book falls from a high shelf and knocks you out, it can't prevent roleplaying. But what was it doing on the shelf during a game anyway?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I hope the rules are great but I also hope that the books speak directly to the issue of how to create a character based on the idea of "Role-Play" not min-max for rules and character advancement.

I'm always happy for suggestions helping me flesh out my characters beyond the numbers, but on the other hand, how many pages should actually be devoted to that kind of advice? If you're not interested in that sort of thing, you won't read it. And if you are interested, you probably have a pretty good idea of how to do it anyway.

The rules that govern the actions of the game are the most important.

 

[Nikosandros]

Actually, from some designers' comments, it looks like 4e will have more refined rules for social interaction than 3e does.

 

[Glyfair]

I'm always happy for suggestions helping me flesh out my characters beyond the numbers, but on the other hand, how many pages should actually be devoted to that kind of advice?

Indeed, the feedback from such books is usually very negative. One of the first books for 3E was the Hero Builder's Guidebook which was very heavy in this regard. The response was negative. The DMG II got a lot of flak because it spent a lot of time discussing such things.

In fact, what ever you want to call the "character assumption" part of the game, it's not something taught by a book. It's something that you learn from playing and is passed on that way. Articles and books can help develop some skills in the area, but it takes the experience to actually develop a taste for it.

 

[Masquerade]

What is your take on this topic? So far from what I have read and heard the designers seem to be engaged it this type of game but then again they might naturally bring this kind of play to the game table.

I think that the books should focus on the rules side of things. Leave it to each group to determine how heavily role-playing weighs into the formula and in what way.

Personally, I like to see it weighed heavily, but I that doesn't mean I give the role-playing advice given in some books (such as PHBII) more than a glance.

 

[psionotic]

Definitely, each group wiill set the tenor as to their own RP preferences. I *am* hoping though, that the new social interaction/encounter rules will be dynamic, interesting, and fun.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

If Fourth Edition includes ways to gain mechanical benefits from roleplaying, I'm all for it. (The reverse doesn't work, but Mearls showed that this can.)

 

[MichaelSomething]

Indeed, the feedback from such books is usually very negative. One of the first books for 3E was the Hero Builder's Guidebook which was very heavy in this regard. The response was negative. The DMG II got a lot of flak because it spent a lot of time discussing such things.

That's a very good point. WOTC produces lots of feats, prestige classes, and other crunch because people buy it. If people were shelling out large amounts of money to buy fluff books then WOTC would be making those.

What I want to know is what should WOTC do if they wanted to produce fluff? If WOTC made a "Complete ROLE Player" what would be in it? What should be in it?