D&D 4E 4E Rules first Role-Play second?

[delericho]

If the PHB contains large blocks of text on how to create character backgrounds, build compelling characters, and how to role-play... no-one will read them, and the game will go just as it did before. Players who are interested in these things do them anyway, while players who are only interested in kewl powerz and killing things will read only for the latest batch of powers for their characters.

Quite simply, the PHB should provide the rules of the game, and leave it to the players to role-play.

The DMG is a bit different in this regard, in that so much of the DM's job is involved in generating fluff for the PCs to interact with. As such, that book should include advice on handling NPCs, building compelling encounters of all sorts, world-building, and so forth.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Heh, in that case I hope WotC will produce a good beginner's entry product this edition, that doesn't just feature the necessary rules to start playing D&D, but a handful of examples of play, solid advice on what can and will come up during a typical D&D adventure and how to handle it, and some ground rules about the group interaction that a lot of us more experienced players expect as a god-given fact after 20+ years of play. Otherwise, somebody who searches for answers on what this whole "roleplaying" is supposed to be in the first place will find lots of numbers, rules, and mechanics...which will produce the same problem 3.X produced, namely people getting their roleplaying inspiration from other media, like computer games or movies, and trying to bring that to D&D. It'd be silly to be THE Number 1 pen & paper roleplaying game in the world, and not contain anything on what roleplaying actually is, or incorporate that concept into the product line. Experienced (or plain uninterested) players nonwithstanding., I'd prefer it if the 4E generation got a little more about what roleplaying IS again, and not just how the numbers add up to generate a big splash of damage.

Kewl powerz always sell, but kewl powerz don't make a roleplaying game.

 

[wgreen]

Indeed, the feedback from such books is usually very negative. One of the first books for 3E was the Hero Builder's Guidebook which was very heavy in this regard. The response was negative. The DMG II got a lot of flak because it spent a lot of time discussing such things.

I wasn't too impressed by the DMG II, but I enjoyed the heck out of the HBG. I found it to be one of the more surprisingly useful books in the game. I hope they aren't too discouraged from doing something similar in 4e...

Also, people tend to think they know how to "role-play," but really, they know what they've been taught. I do hope there's something about it in the new PHB, so that people will know whether or not their expectations for the game are in-line with the designers'. I mean, just try to get a definition for the term "role-playing" on any message board like this one (or USENET), and you'll get a million of them, many of them incompatible.

-Will

 

[F4NBOY]

Actually, from some designers' comments, it looks like 4e will have more refined rules for social interaction than 3e does.

WHAT???
Damn it they are killing D&D!

 

[Raven Crowking]

You don't need rules for role-playing.

Quoted for Truth.

(Of course, rewards for role-playing worked into the rules can be fun, too, but are probably best determined by each individual DM.)


RC

 

[F4NBOY]

Kewl powerz always sell, but kewl powerz don't make a roleplaying game.

Yeah, people do, and only people, not books.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Heh, in that case I hope WotC will produce a good beginner's entry product this edition, that doesn't just feature the necessary rules to start playing D&D, but a handful of examples of play, solid advice on what can and will come up during a typical D&D adventure and how to handle it, and some ground rules about the group interaction that a lot of us more experienced players expect as a god-given fact after 20+ years of play. Otherwise, somebody who searches for answers on what this whole "roleplaying" is supposed to be in the first place will find lots of numbers, rules, and mechanics...which will produce the same problem 3.X produced, namely people getting their roleplaying inspiration from other media, like computer games or movies, and trying to bring that to D&D. It'd be silly to be THE Number 1 pen & paper roleplaying game in the world, and not contain anything on what roleplaying actually is, or incorporate that concept into the product line. Experienced (or plain uninterested) players nonwithstanding., I'd prefer it if the 4E generation got a little more about what roleplaying IS again, and not just how the numbers add up to generate a big splash of damage.

Kewl powerz always sell, but kewl powerz don't make a roleplaying game.

The cynic in me thinks that WotC may be trying to put an end to the role-playing vs. roll-playing argument with its concept of party "roles." They may be trying to redefine roleplaying as a character filling a certain role, rather than a player assuming the role of a character.

That said, people always have and probably always will do as much or as little roleplaying as they feel comfortable with, regardless of what the books suggest. I do think they should give some good examples of play in the books, giving a feel for how some of the mechanics work as well as some ways people might roleplay their characters.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Kewl powerz always sell, but kewl powerz don't make a roleplaying game.

Also Quoted for Truth.

 

[Khairn]

You don't need rules for role-playing. Every group will incorporate as much or as little as deemed necessary.

QFT .... but

Rules can be written that help to encourage and promote RP. I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but as an example the new Changeling book by WW, has a number of rules that provide support for RP within the crunch.

If there is a desire to incorporate rules that help to encourage RP, then I think the 4E design team will be able to figure out the crunchy parts.

 

[F4NBOY]

the new Changeling book by WW, has a number of rules that provide support for RP within the crunch.

Can you give us an example please?