D&D 4E 4e Spell Casting Questions

[Szatany]

I came up with this layout over at the WotC boards.

TABLE: 4e Spellcaster           HIT DIE: D8

    BASE ATTACK FORT  REF   WILL                At     Per       Per 
LVL BONUS       SAVE  SAVE  SAVE  SPECIAL      Will   Encounter  Day
 1  +0           +0    +2    +2   Ability       3       3         1
 2  +1           +0    +3    +3   Ability       3       3         1
 3  +2           +1    +3    +3   Ability       4       3         1
 4  +3           +1    +4    +4   Ability       5       4         2

More likely it will be something like this (pure speculation on numbers of cource):

TABLE: 4e Spellcaster    

[B]Hit Points/Level:[/B] 3 + Con mod.
[B]Skill Points/Level:[/B] 4 + Int mod.
[b]Action Points/Level:[/b] 2 + Cha mod.

[B]Base Attack Bonus:[/B]
  Melee: +0
  Ranged: +0
  Magic: +5
[B]Base Defese Bonus:[/B]
  Fortitude: +0
  Reflex: +0
  Will: +5
[B]
     Special      Powers Known
LVL  Abilities    Cantrips  Power Words  Spells[/B]
 1   Ability          3         3           1
 2   Feat             3         3           1
 3   Ability          4         3           1
 4   Feat             5         4           2

 

[WSmith]

The only thing with the speculation is that the Wizards crew pretty much said BAB is gone. Interesting things are to come from this.

 

[Szatany]

that's why I posted it as a flat bonus (saga-style) instead of a progression.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

that's why I posted it as a flat bonus (saga-style) instead of a progression.

Starwars Saga still uses the "old" BAB progressions (though only medium and high BAB progression rates), but uses fixed bonuses for saving throws (and skill training/focus), augmented by a character (not class) level bonus.

But it seems (from the Preview books "spoilers" and the WotC comments so far) that they're definitely going for a unified, level dependend bonus modified by a class specific bonus. (Whether the latter changes over the course of the levels is unclear at this point)

 

[Szatany]

That's why i'm thinking it's gonna be a +1/2 level bonus to all BAB and defenses, plus a flat bonus that is dependant on your first character level (and if you multiclass, it still only counts which of your classes was your first).

So a 30th level wizard (using my numbers) would have melee BAB of +15, ranged BAB of +15, magic BAB +20, +15 fort, +15 ref, and +20 will, before ability scores. He would have the same numbers if he multiclassed with a druid or whatever for any number of levels.

 

[TerraDave]

Hum. I did some digging....
Say you want to cast a spell that would save against REF. You would roll a d20, add "something" for magic (not sure what, maybe INT bonus, maybe a level modifier, maybe some form of both) and want to beat the target devil's REF score.

I wished I remembered where I saw the reference of how saves were going to work, cause I would post it.

They have also mentioned critting on spells. So you launch your fireball against the ref def of your targets, roll 20, critical hit: extra crispy.

 

[JohnSnow]

Hey there,

An interview with Chris Perkins on the Gaming Steve.com site (at the very end) Perkins states there will be 30 levels of spells/powers.

Actually, if you listen carefully to the interview, you'll notice that isn't precisely what Chris said. He said that you would get, for example, 9th level spells at 9th level, and so on. When Gaming Steve mentioned Level 30 powers, Chris's response was something like "hypothetically, yes."

Combine that with one of the designers saying previously that 30 levels of spells was "probably too much granularity," and I think you can infer the following.

You get spells at every odd level. So first level spells at 1st level, 3rd level ones at Level 3, and so on. That's 15 levels of granularity, and when combined with the differentiation between at-will, per-encounter, and per day abilities, that's probably sufficient. Perhaps tellingly, all the Paladin "smites" previewed were "odd-level." It is also consistent with the design of Star Wars Saga Edition where characters got a talent at every odd level and a feat at every even level.

The above is, of course, just what I have inferred from the various comments. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with there being 30 levels of powers/spells.

 

[JohnSnow]

That's why i'm thinking it's gonna be a +1/2 level bonus to all BAB and defenses, plus a flat bonus that is dependant on your first character level (and if you multiclass, it still only counts which of your classes was your first).

So a 30th level wizard (using my numbers) would have melee BAB of +15, ranged BAB of +15, magic BAB +20, +15 fort, +15 ref, and +20 will, before ability scores. He would have the same numbers if he multiclassed with a druid or whatever for any number of levels.

I imagine that, if we can take Star Wars Saga Edition as any kind of guide, the 1st level bonus will be less. I expect the class will get a +2 or +3 bonus with their principle attack type (magic, melee, or ranged). Then there will probably be feats that boost that, and you can probably also factor in that each character will be able to rely on their primary ability.

For instance, a 10th level Wizard (Int 18 (+4)), probably has the following attack. I'm stealing the format from the Spined Devil card, and guessing at the numbers:

Fireball Area; ranged 10; +12 Int vs. Ref; 3d6+9 fire

Where my numbers come from:

Range is a guess.

Attack Bonus:
10th level: +5 BAB
Int bonus: +4 Atk
Magical Attack Bonus: +3 Atk
Total: +12

Damage Bonus:
10th level: +5 Dmg
Int bonus: +4 Dmg
Total: +9

And 3d6 just seemed like a good base for a Fireball.

+12 may seem like a pretty hefty attack bonus, but extrapolating with the same assumptions, a character of that level is going to have a Ref Defense somewhere between 15 (a low-dex wizard) and 22 (a rogue with an 18 dex).

Of course, my estimates could be WAYY off.

 

[TerraDave]

I think that it was explicitly said that while spells will go from 1-30, there will not be spells at every level. E.g. it may be at odd levels, as implied by the current system (though we would still be getting ~7 new levels of spells in this example).

 

[WSmith]

Interestingly enough, even in the older editions of D&D that I still love, spell casters did not gain a new "spell level" at every "character level" Not exactly, but if I were to do the math, I would think that averages out to a new level of spells at least every other class level if not further apart. I would have to look that up to confirm that.