4E value < 3E value

[Fenes]

From your last paragraph it seems apparent that you aren't comparing like with like. If you're comparing the information provided in the FRCG about a region to the information provided about a region in a 2E regional book, then it's absolutely certain the 4E book is certain to come up short. So does the equivalent 3E FRCS, or the 1E boxed set, or the 2E guide.

But those all had regional sourcebooks coming afterwards. 4E hasn't.

(Of course some will say there might be such books, but in that case: Where is the "more accessible because of less info" argument going then?)

 

[BeauNiddle]

Reducing setting information is not really making the game more acessible. It just reduces the game's scope and options.

3E FR already showed less detailed information compared to 2E. 4E FR is much worse, reducing entire regions to cliff notes of cliff notes.

I don't know about you, but having actual details about customs society and locations of a region was not making a setting "less accessible", it was making it more accessible for those who don't have the time to make up their own setting.

I would have to disagree with this statement. For me personally the 3rd ed FR campaign book scared me off the setting permanently. I knew that as the DM I would not be able to master that amount of information AND definitely wouldn't be able to convey it to my players without a lot more effort than either I or they would be willing to put into our hobby.

For you to say 3rd ed was less detailed than 2nd ed makes my mind boggle (I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just boggled that there was still more to learn)

Pyschologically I feel that I have to know everything in the book to be able to run something, and then I make up stuff on top to make myself happy. I know other people are happy are happy ignoring stuff in books and only using what they need but I'm not one of them.

[Note: I've not actually bought any of the 4th ed FR books as I'm still scared by the setting - I'll be picking up the Eberron books next year so I hope they are approachable by new people as well.]

 

[Fenes]

Pyschologically I feel that I have to know everything in the book to be able to run something, and then I make up stuff on top to make myself happy. I know other people are happy are happy ignoring stuff in books and only using what they need but I'm not one of them.

That is a problem. And you'll not be able to run FR until you overcome that, not with all the novels and Dragon articles adding stuff over time - but as I fear, scattered around, and not sorted by regions.

And good luck trying to look up info from a novel.

 

[Bluenose]

But those all had regional sourcebooks coming afterwards. 4E hasn't.

(Of course some will say there might be such books, but in that case: Where is the "more accessible because of less info" argument going then?)

One thing I'd note about the regional sourcebooks. If you start playing in an area before the sourcebook comes out then it's more or less guaranteed that some of the things your DM creates aren't going to be there when the "real" sourcebook comes out. If you decide to wait and it's an obscure area, you might never get anything. So they aren't something every group is fond of.

 

[Ginnel]

Hmm I've got no complaints about the text or layout or page count, but the price and the content for the campaign setting is not good.

Everywhere is for adventures and dungeoning, cities aren't fleshed out to a satisfactory degree, apart from one or two ideas for hooks and the few monsters in the back I fail to see anything of use.

I mean please there are two black dragon headed chimeras here, and another one there are Naga here with regenerating trolls pinned to the walls, this is a town of scum and villainy and a dodgy wizard tower I want some detail not quickly jotted ideas I could think of off the top of my head, I can do them I need specifics I want maps of towns, of forests, of mines and of castles.

£24.99 for the book wasn't the best value but I'll browse it more and see if I can get anything more out of it.

If you haven't read my posts yet I am a fan of the new edition.

 

[cangrejoide]

..., but a topic like this was doomed from the start to be cast to a fiery death by the 4e zealots.

Really?

'4e zealots'?

To quote Mourn:

"Are we back to this nonsense again?"

 

[Fenes]

Really?

'4e zealots'?

To quote Mourn:

"Are we back to this nonsense again?"

Neither calling 4E fans "zealots" nor calling the OP "Nonsense" is exactly polite, or non-confrontational. Too bad both sides seem to overlook their own faults.

 

[D.Shaffer]

That is a problem. And you'll not be able to run FR until you overcome that, not with all the novels and Dragon articles adding stuff over time - but as I fear, scattered around, and not sorted by regions.

And good luck trying to look up info from a novel.

But why should they HAVE to overcome this? Getting away from Novel 'Canon' is one of the apparently goals. NO ONE should HAVE to buy the novels to keep up with things and DM's should be ENCOURAGED to go off on their own and tailor the realms to their own campaigns, not forced to wear the blinders of 'But FR LORE says it happens this way'

Seriously, I think you're looking at a double standard here. If they DONT give you all the information you want, you see it as patronizing in a 'Well, you cant handle all this info' sort of way. However, I see the 3rd edition version the other way. 'Well, newbie DM's cant make up their own info so we'll spoon feed it to them in mind numbing, eye straining detail most of them wont need'

 

[wedgeski]

They made DM customisation mandatory. That's very nice if you want to sell adventure paths, but it doesn't really make the realms accessible to new DMs who are not used to make things up.

Like I said, they just can't win.

 

[Fenes]

But why should they HAVE to overcome this? Getting away from Novel 'Canon' is one of the apparently goals. NO ONE should HAVE to buy the novels to keep up with things and DM's should be ENCOURAGED to go off on their own and tailor the realms to their own campaigns, not forced to wear the blinders of 'But FR LORE says it happens this way'

Seriously, I think you're looking at a double standard here. If they DONT give you all the information you want, you see it as patronizing in a 'Well, you cant handle all this info' sort of way. However, I see the 3rd edition version the other way. 'Well, newbie DM's cant make up their own info so we'll spoon feed it to them in mind numbing, eye straining detail most of them wont need'

I ignored novels in 3E, anyone could do the same. I also never had such blinders as you mention - I modified FR as I pleased. But someone who is too inexperienced to modify a setting won't be able to make up their own fluff either.

What I want is as much info as possible, to pick and choose. And a paragraph that states "DMs! Change, pick and choose whatever you want from this!". Would work for everyone.