D&D 4E 4elements question

[ZickZak]

I am thinking of using https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Specifically this spell. How well do you think it is balanced? Tx

Eyes of Fire
Initiation Action: Bonus action
Range: Self
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You may spend 2 ki points to gain magical infravision for 1 minute with a range of 60 feet. This infravision allows you to magically see any heat source within range, revealing the size, location, and general form of each heat source, but not any other details. This ability reveals heat sources that are invisible, hidden, obscured, or located on the other side of walls or other barriers you could not normally see through.

 

[Azurewraith]

I cant see this being an issue its a kind of watered down true sight with a nice spin on it besides 4elements could use a boost.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Eyes of Fire doesn't look that bad to use. Maybe have a 6th level requirement, but otherwise good to go.

My biggest complaint about the Mot4E is the limited number of disciplines known. I think that gaining two instead of one at each listed level would allow the player more variety in what their Elemental Monks can do. I'm afraid that the same limited number of spells known will be part of the Sacred Fist subclass. Ideally, having the spells known count of a Ranger makes more sense for caster monks, as they are technically half-casters with less spells known than the third-casters of EK and AT. At the very least, having 10 different things to do with your action other than Attack is better than just 6.

If you're DMing this game, consider my fix of doubling the gained elemental disciplines as an experiment. It would also make your players more likely to test any homebrew disciplines that you add.

 

[El Mahdi]

How well do you think it is balanced?

It has a few problems, though I'll overlook that there's no such thing as Infravision in 5E and just stick to the three balance issues I see.

First, 6th Level Monk disciplines cost 3 ki points in the PHB - the ones from that document only cost 2 ki points.

Second, nothing in 5E can see through walls, not even True Seeing. Seeing heat sources through walls is conceptually bad (Infravision never worked through walls in any edition - not even in real-life) and it's overpowered since nothing else in 5E can see through walls. Even making the argument that it's magical Infravision, that aspect is still more powerful than True Seeing. Same with hidden and obscured creatures and objects.

Third, allowing this as a Bonus Action is also overpowered. True Seeing requires an entire action for a minimum 11th level spellcasting character; but a 6th level Monk can make an unarmed attack AND cast a spell to see people through walls during their same turn? Uh uh...not happening.

Not sure what the people that designed that pdf were thinking, but allowing many of those disciplines as a bonus action is incredibly overpowered. They need to take 1 action - same as in the PHB - and since they aren't an unarmed attack, no bonus action is allowed when using them.


So, to sum up:
- Should cost 3 ki points (not 2 ki points).
- Remove see thru walls, hidden and obscure. (Invisible is okay, since See Invisibility is a 2nd level spell.)
- 1 Action (not Bonus Action)


Cheers.

 

[ZickZak]

So, to sum up:
- Should cost 3 ki points (not 2 ki points).
- Remove see thru walls, hidden and obscure. (Invisible is okay, since See Invisibility is a 2nd level spell.)
- 1 Action (not Bonus Action)

They said they wanted to reduce the costs to "at-lvl" to bring it up on pair with Shadow Monk.

 

[ZickZak]

Eyes of Fire doesn't look that bad to use. Maybe have a 6th level requirement, but otherwise good to go.

It is lvl 6+

 

[El Mahdi]

They said they wanted to reduce the costs to "at-lvl" to bring it up on pair with Shadow Monk.

Yeah, I get it; but they approached it wrong. You don't try to fix an imbalance with an overpowered ability by making both overpowered. That's how infinite power creep begins (like 3E to 3.5E to Pathfinder).

What would have been better is change Shadow Step (that's the only one I see as a problem).

Probably to something like this:

Shadow Step
At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, you can expend 3 ki points in conjunction with any of your movement to teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.

Other than that, I don't see a major imbalance between the two. Way of the Four Elements has far more versatility than Way of the Shadow. Shadow Monk is just a Ninja. Four Elements Monk is an Elemental Magic User/Monk hybrid - almost a multi-class character.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Other than that, I don't see a major imbalance between the two. Way of the Four Elements has far more versatility than Way of the Shadow. Shadow Monk is just a Ninja. Four Elements Monk is an Elemental Magic User/Monk hybrid - almost a multi-class character.

Four Elements (FE) Monk feels like a failed attempt at recreating the Enlightened Fist, by limiting the number of options available to them. The other two Monastic Traditions provide abilities that are geared primarily to complement the existing Monk action strategy of "Hit fast and move faster," whereas the FE provides abilities that aim to add variety to the Monk resource economy. A different approach should have been taken with their resource economy when determining the number of elemental disciplines learned.

The closest cousin to overall Ki casting is the Warlock's Pact Magic, as both mechanics are tied to short rest resources. The Warlock was designed to always have more spells than slots, making opportunity cost a deciding factor when casting a spell. All other casters will eventually have more slots than spells known/prepared, or at least a close enough number of them. The FE quickly finds itself with more slots than spells within a few levels. It becomes a rather mechanically boring class immediately, as both the choices and opportunities to change known disciplines are so few that bad choices are stuck with the player for many levels.