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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E's "Proud Nails"
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<blockquote data-quote="Bobbum Man" data-source="post: 5862040" data-attributes="member: 6688219"><p>All-in-all I think that 4E had a lot of great ideas, but some of the implementations stick out as "proud nails" to me:</p><p> </p><p>Healing Surges - Essentially reserve hit points...good idea for tracking longer-term attrition, but poorly implemented in my opinion. I take issue with everything resetting at full after a night's rest. Also, I feel that the mechanic could have been expanded to encompass other resources. For instance, healing surges (tangent: terrible name) could have been used in place of action points and to fuel rituals.</p><p> </p><p>Rituals: Separating game buggering story powers into rituals was a great idea, IMO. However, they were cost prohibitive in games that prominently featured magic item marts and strictly observed treasure parcels. Also, I would have liked to see rituals take on a more skill-challenge-esque approach so that multiple party members could participate. I feel that the thematic limitations of: "Guy who stabs things real good" could be overcome if stabby guy can help his wizard friend open a portal to valhalla somehow.</p><p> </p><p>Skill Challenges: Another great idea, but lackluster implementation I feel. My main gripe here is that the intended purpose was to get ALL party members participating in the event, through creative skill usage, but the mathematical reality is that the system encouraged players to spam their highest skill again and again, or else you were actively contributing to the party's failure. Good DM's can run interesting skill challenges, but the system isn't "idiot proof" enough for my tastes. I think it would have been better to guage victory through some metric besides simple success counting. Also, I dislike the idea of scaling DC's.</p><p> </p><p>Power Structure: Personally, I don't find the classes to be as same-y as people claim, even if they all use the AEDU structure. I've found that Fighters play significantly different from Paladins, who play significantly different from clerics, who play differently than Bards, who play differently Rogues, who themselves are perfectly distinct even compared to Rangers. No, my problem is that: 2[Damage Die] + pre-rendered effect is boring to metied tooclosely to grid/minis. I would rather have seen powers that were designed more narratively than tactically.</p><p> </p><p>Number/Option Bloat: I used to use the character builder, because it was easier than poring through two or three books to build a character. Now I pore thorugh two or three books to build a character, because it's easier than sorting through hundreds of available feats and powers. Seriously, I would rather see fewer options with stronger decision points than a bloated, tumorous mass of options. It's like trying to pick all of the pineapples out of a jello salad...and who even takes guild feats anyway? On that note, I would also like to see numbers bloat mitigated. I would be happy if a character's total modifiers were less than the range of the randomizer (d20).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bobbum Man, post: 5862040, member: 6688219"] All-in-all I think that 4E had a lot of great ideas, but some of the implementations stick out as "proud nails" to me: Healing Surges - Essentially reserve hit points...good idea for tracking longer-term attrition, but poorly implemented in my opinion. I take issue with everything resetting at full after a night's rest. Also, I feel that the mechanic could have been expanded to encompass other resources. For instance, healing surges (tangent: terrible name) could have been used in place of action points and to fuel rituals. Rituals: Separating game buggering story powers into rituals was a great idea, IMO. However, they were cost prohibitive in games that prominently featured magic item marts and strictly observed treasure parcels. Also, I would have liked to see rituals take on a more skill-challenge-esque approach so that multiple party members could participate. I feel that the thematic limitations of: "Guy who stabs things real good" could be overcome if stabby guy can help his wizard friend open a portal to valhalla somehow. Skill Challenges: Another great idea, but lackluster implementation I feel. My main gripe here is that the intended purpose was to get ALL party members participating in the event, through creative skill usage, but the mathematical reality is that the system encouraged players to spam their highest skill again and again, or else you were actively contributing to the party's failure. Good DM's can run interesting skill challenges, but the system isn't "idiot proof" enough for my tastes. I think it would have been better to guage victory through some metric besides simple success counting. Also, I dislike the idea of scaling DC's. Power Structure: Personally, I don't find the classes to be as same-y as people claim, even if they all use the AEDU structure. I've found that Fighters play significantly different from Paladins, who play significantly different from clerics, who play differently than Bards, who play differently Rogues, who themselves are perfectly distinct even compared to Rangers. No, my problem is that: 2[Damage Die] + pre-rendered effect is boring to metied tooclosely to grid/minis. I would rather have seen powers that were designed more narratively than tactically. Number/Option Bloat: I used to use the character builder, because it was easier than poring through two or three books to build a character. Now I pore thorugh two or three books to build a character, because it's easier than sorting through hundreds of available feats and powers. Seriously, I would rather see fewer options with stronger decision points than a bloated, tumorous mass of options. It's like trying to pick all of the pineapples out of a jello salad...and who even takes guild feats anyway? On that note, I would also like to see numbers bloat mitigated. I would be happy if a character's total modifiers were less than the range of the randomizer (d20). [/QUOTE]
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