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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 4066061" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey all! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Some interesting stuff on the 4E Rogue today.The big surprise is that Con Score now adds to hit points once, rather than Con mod each level. I think this is a vast improvement. Its also starting to look like the Pit Fiend is a lot tougher than we initially envisioned.Expect immortals to have significantly lower hit points. The Pit Fiend looks to have about 12 per Hit Dice (plus Con Score and starting bonus?), while the Ancient Red Dragon (assuming 1000+ hp and 26-30th level) would seem to have something akin to 35 per Hit Dice.My guess is that elite monsters get double standard hit dice (presumably 6/level for standard Soldier types). While Solo monsters get quintuple (possibly 7/level for standard brutes?).e.g. Pit Fiend: Base 11 (Soldier?) + [26 x 6 (Soldier) x2 (Elite)] + 27 (Con Score) = 11 + 312 + 27 = 350e.g. Ancient Red Dragon: Base 14 (Brute?) + [27 x 7 (Brute) x5 (Solo)] + 50 (Con Score?) = 14 + 955 + 50 = 1019e.g. Spined Devil: Base 8 (Skirmisher?) + [6 x 4 (Skirmisher?)] + 15 (Con Score) = 8 + 24 + 15 = 47e.g. Ice Archon: Base 9 (?) + [18 x 5 (?)] + (18 Con Score) = 9 + 90 + 18The Base totals in the above examples seem a bit iffy, but the premise of multiplying hit points for elite and solo monsters seems plausible.Lurker +3/Level...?Controller +4/Level...?Skirmisher +5/Level (Going by Rogue)Soldier +6/Level...?Brute +7/Level...?As far as I can tell, most 'gods' will be 'Elite' types, while certain monstrous gods (I'm thinking specifically those with no artifacts) will be 'Solo' threats.Thor Level 50 Elite Brute14 + 700 + 60 (Con?) = 774 hpDemogorgon Level 50 Solo Brute14 + 1750 + 60 (Con?) = 1824 hpInteresting dynamic.Given that we know Orcus is in the Monster Manual, he would either be something like:Level 30 Elite Brute (Leader)14 + 420 + 40 (Con?) = 474 hpOrLevel 30 Solo Brute (Leader)14 + 1050 + 40 (Con?) = 1104 hpMy guess is perhaps something close to the former but designed to be encountered with multiple lieutenants (Balors & Liches for instance?). But it will be very interesting to see how it pans out. Personally I would have Orcus perhaps Level 45 Elite.</blockquote>

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