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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ltheb Silverfrond" data-source="post: 4431009" data-attributes="member: 39867">U_K!This is probably true; But still, unless you want to do something not supported by rules, it is rather hard to make a character that is bad without setting out to do so. (But I do agree; 16+ is an assumed standard; I'd rather have that than having an 18 or 20 throw everything off)Ahh the Orb-Wizard. Thankfully, there are very few save-penalizing things. (Orb-wizard being the only ability modifier based one I can think of) But yea, if the foe is saving at -11, non-elites have no chance. Save penalizing things should be weak, as well as few and far between.Well, last session I ran an encounter with a Solo foe. (solo version of the immolith demon; reduced in level to 7) The party was level 6, a 5 man squad (Fighter/ranger; Rogue/Warlock; Infernal Warlock; Warlord/paladin; and Ranger-TWF); The party had some extraneous healing available from the warlord, but it really wasn't necessary. The party had one advantage: They knew pretty much what the demon could do. (Fire-related crap; necrotic nastieness; and that cold was likely it's weakness) The Fighter had Fire/Necrotic resisting armor, an the Warlord had obtained a Frostbrand in the 2nd adventure. The Demon went down hard; Warlord used his paladin mark; and the demon focused all it's firepower on the warlord: Throwing Lava at him; Grappling him and Pinning him IN LAVA while blasting him. But the end result was that after about 5 rounds, the demon died, most PCs took ~6-12 total damage (except the warlord who was down to 3 Hp and had used one healing surge on his Warlord heal power) The frost brand, and (ab)use of the monster's weaknesses probably cut down the duration of the fight by 2/3rds. The Warlord did like ~25 dmg per round; he did like 50+ with his daily; poor demon had ~400 Hp, and the party composition is basically 3 & 1/2 Strikers (Fighter in the party is a heavy damage dealer primarily)But yea, fight duration depends on many factors; A monster weakness can turn a relativly weak power (like a Frost Brand; or an At-Will power)  into something more monsterous than a daily power. (Divine Challenge on a radiant-weak monster is totally going to kill it quick unless it pounds the paladin)But it also depends on party composition; My group that I run for is mostly strikers and heavy hitters; They take less damage in fights because the fighter does his job and the three strikers kill the monsters one by one. A group of 5 Clerics/Paladins can be a battle of attrition, since with that group each character can spend all their healing surges, giving them many times more HP than normal. It really can vary. 5 Wizards would spam status conditions and zones of difficult/damaging terrain such that most intelligent foes would just give up.Actually, don't tell my group this, but I have some pretty rough encounters planned for tomorrows game. Really nasty encounters involving strategically organized monster roles (like a fight of 2 Soldiers, 2 Lurkers, and 8 Minions) and biased terrain (narrow halls with a Hellhound up in front and a leader-type guy in the back to make the PCs earn every square they move) as well as other fun things.  I've been a bit soft with them up until now; Now that they are level 7, its time I take the proverbial dials to '11'.</blockquote>

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