Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ltheb Silverfrond" data-source="post: 4437806" data-attributes="member: 39867">I'm going to agree with Pssthpok here; I think looking for problems without enough data is a pointless and self-defeating venture. The only way to KNOW if Elites and Solos have too many HP/Defenses is to roll up a bunch at different levels and see how they compare to PCs of those levels.As for the game I ran: Even the Elite Brute I had at the end didn't last more than 7 rounds. (A shame; I didn't give him too many choices, he could have been more challenging)I want to echo a bit of the DMG guidelines here for Elite and Solo design, as from my experience, they are important to follow, but not spelled out enough:1. Elites, and indeed Solos, need to be interesting. Many powers/attacks/interrupts/reactions help with this, but a single basic attack is just not enough; without enough options, they become sacks of hitpoints. 2. They say that, in general, elites need to do something when bloodied. This is true. In fact, having an elite or solo that totally switches gears when bloodied makes them much more interesting. Elites take the place of 2 basic monsters, so why shouldn't they have as many tricks up their sleeve? Look at the (Non-Elite) angel of Valor; Their aura goes away when bloodied, but they gain a new attack form. I could see 4E Immortals (and their foes) having the ability to basically change monster roles half-way though the fight. (An Artillery god becoming more of a skirmisher god when bloodied)3. Elites, and definitely solos, need to be deadly. If the party can heal itself faster then the elite can damage, asside from resource depletion, there's no challenge. Elites only get one attack a round, so it needs to do comparable damage compared to replacing the elite with 2 artillery monsters. If Elites are intended to be the 'stars' of the combat 'show', then they need to be the biggest threat. In one encounter I ran, (2 Angels of Valor, a Cambion Hellsword, and an 8th level Elite Human Berserker Scion of Flame) The party ignored the human and took out the angels and Cambion first. The only element making that fight hard was that most PCs by then had only 1-2 healing surges left, but had all their Dailies remaining. Another thing to think about: Elite enemies in certain roles just are not interesting. Elite Brutes and Soldiers are cool and 2X hp and higher damage make sense, but Elite Lurkers? The 2X HP just seem like they are abnormally tough. In my mind; an Elite Lurker or Skirmisher isn't just tougher; It's faster, more stealthy, and has more options. Thats what makes Lurkers and Skirmishers so interesting, not their high HP totals. (Lurkers have the lowest HP anyway) I would say, when tossing together Elite Lurkers and Skirmishers, (or when contemplating 4E Immortals Skirmishers and Lurkers) More HP does not equal more interesting. A Lurker, like a Wraith, might have a power to hit, and then shift away. An Elite lurker, by example, might have a power to hit, move away, and stealth, all in the same attack.</blockquote>

Verification