D&D 5E 4Xing the D&D

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
So i was about to start up a game of a playthrough of a 4X strategy game and I got wondering about the expense and maintenance rule for DMG.

What if some cray DM wanted to base their campaign about the PCs setting up a colony someplace remote and the adventures were expeditions into uncharted lands to pay off expansion costs on the colony or killing off pillaging barbarians and rival colonies.

Here are my observations.


  • The DMG rules assume a 30 day month for everything. If you are going to do this DMs, use 30 day month.
  • Although not official there seems to be a progression
    • Main residence
      • Trading Post (2 months, 5000gp, 6 pop, 300 gp per month)
      • Outpost (3 months, 15,000gp, 60 pop, 1500 gp per month)
      • Estate on an Outpost (2 more months, 25,000gp more, 6 more pop, 300 more gp per month)
      • Small Castle (13 months, 50,000gp, 100 pop, 3000 gp per month)
      • Large Castle (4 years, 500,000gp, 300 pop, 120,000 gp per month)
    • There are no rules for upgrading or producing.
  • The rules for businesses are bad profit-wise. It pretty much forces you to adventure to make money as business product is terrible compare to the cost of the game.
    • Oddly enough, it encourages you to not leave your estates until you can afford a steward.
  • The only unit you have access to form garrisons are guards and veterans. And you have to get up to castles to get those.
    • You could rule to build scouts by building hunting lodges. The cost is about right.
    • A small or large temple could provide acolytes.
      • A competed abbey could get you a priest or some druids or some knights.
    • A guildhall might give you spies, knights, and thugs
  • The UA on mass combat might be useful for combats where the PCs aren't available.

So what are you thoughts on the matter? Would you like an Unearth Arcana to expand these ideas? I think it could be a cool idea to keep players into the game when not at the session, doing calculations and making decisions via text or email during offtime.
 

log in or register to remove this ad





I can't comment on the specific rules you're proposed, but I find this thread inspiring! My players have in fact expressed an interest in founding a colony on another planet, and I should definitely think about whipping up some 4X rules for them to play with instead of just handwaving it through RP interactions. That is, I think it will be more satisfying for them if I give them some rules to play with.

They're already having fun with the logistics aspects of the game (a good 25% of the fun and tension of last session revolved around whether they had enough cows to fuel their lifejammer to the next planet and back), which is why I think they will enjoy adding more 4X aspects to the game.

I think I'll start by throwing out some basic rules along the lines of:

* Their spelljamming ship currently generates zero gp profit per day of operation, and costs 2d4 cows to run. (Or the players can opt to actually roll the Con saves/damage dice per cow, at their option.)
* Interplanetary trade will generate revenue based mainly on how good their network of contacts are. As a lowball figure, once they meet some other humans and figure out how trade works, they'll make 10 gold per day per point of SR (cows give SR 1) per ton of cargo capacity (they have a hammership so 60 tons).
* It takes 1 ton of cargo capacity to move supplies for 1 person to the new planet (costing 100 gp). The rock they explored last week can support 16,000 people (25 square miles = 16,000 acres), so they could fill it up with colonists in about 3 years.
* Each colonist on the rock will produce economic activity and taxes equivalent to 1 gp per month. So if they fill up the rock with 16,000 colonists, they'll be making about as much money as they could from moving cargo, only without spending anything on cows.

All of the above coefficients are subject to negotiation during play. If they find a rich location, colonists might produce 2 gp per month there. If they find a rich trade route or get a lucrative trade contract, it might be worth 20 or 100 gp per day per ton of cargo space. Rich trade routes will be contested more heavily by pirates.

I'm not sure what to do about interstellar trade: either it will be very lucrative, or it will be too expensive to exist. I'm leaning toward the latter, which will make interstellar travel rare and a financial gamble.
 


Hiya!

If you really want to get into the nitty gritty of what would be required to start and maintain a "town", you can check out Harn's "Harn Manor" and "Harn Village". Here is stuff on HarnManor: http://theharniac.net/farmer/harnmanor_village.htm , as well as the site Lythia.com: http://www.lythia.com/ .

You can get the excellent PDF's for all the core Harn stuff at RPGNow, DrivethruRPG and Paizo. Some are a bit pricey, I'll admit, but *well* worth it! I just bought, (because of this thread!...) the Harn Manor PDF for just under $30 canadian...and after a quick look-see...I don't regret it in the slightest! Black and white, no color, no fancy boarders and whatnot; just easy to read and easy to print pages! Mmmmm....

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Interesting thread. I'd like to see this discussion continue as I enjoy giving the players the ability to shape the world around them and in 5e they get tons of gold and there's not a lot they can do with it. With the right rules set up for something like this, you could run a great political campaign or a game-of-thrones type deal, or have the PCs inherit kingdoms and play as their descendents, etc.

Some specific ideas...

- CHARGE Combine Knights with a Warhorse for a heavy cavalry unit

- Location, Location, Location - This begs for a big hex-based map. Assign resource values to specific hexes, assuming you have commoners laboring there. You could get as granular as you wanted (wood, food, etc) or just do a generic gold value. Perhaps allow the construction of a building provide "ownership" to hexes within a certain radius (with more expensive buildings like castles extending the zone of control), and if those hexes are attacked, the guards at the building are the ones who respond, you could use the skirmish rules but honestly I would probably favor something simpler for most combats that don't involve the PCs, but I'm not positive yet.

- Build it and they will come - Some other ideas for simple buildings would be guard towers, stables, and mines.

- Nice guys once you get to know them - In addition to their named purpose, Bandits, Thugs, and Bandit Captains can also be used to represent militia.

- You're a wizard, Harry - The evil mage statblock from Lost Mines could be used to represent a low-level mage.

- Manifest Destiny, Mother****ers - The PCs might discover an indigenous population that could be leveraged for cheap labor or made equal partners, or maybe they know something about the surrounding terrain. Even if the PCs don't kill or enslave them, these creatures might come to resent their presence and stage an uprising or a rebellion when the party least expects it.

- I know a guy - PCs could borrow money to build stuff, but have to pay it back (with interest). This could open some interesting opportunities for the players to, for example, borrow money to construct an outpost near a valuable mineral deposit (cave or something), sinking a ton of borrowed gold into its construction only to discover that there's a chromatic dragon nearby that doesn't like them getting so close to his lair, so he torches the outpost unless the PCs stop him. If they fail to stop the attacks, they're on the hook for the borrowed money but have no way to pay it back (cue an adventure) and your interplanar loan sharks start sending increasingly powerful interplanar debt collectors after them (maybe a pit fiend named Vinny).

- You gotta spend money to make money Many players, when presented with the above option of borrowing money, will elect to "play it safe" and pay out of pocket for everything. To make it more realistic, make sure there are consequences if they don't act quickly on information (a rival team moves in and takes ownership of the land, for instance), so they are more tempted to borrow money in order to seize an opportunity before they lose it.

- Best of the Best Sir! With Honors! You could rather easily create upgraded versions of the stock NPC statblocks to represent more elite units (that are more expensive to train, maintain, etc)

- Behind every great man... Optionally provide the PCs with NPC advisors, a "cabinet" if you will, to advise them on various courses of action. They would have expertise in a specific area, but also their own motives. Make sure any NPC you put as an advisor to the PC has a full set of bonds, traits, ideals, and a few skeletons in the closet. The goal should be that, most of the time, the NPCs are providing valuable advice and insight, but every now and then, due to something going on behind the scenes, the NPC might advise something that isn't strictly in the best interests of the PCs. For example:

Moe the Mining Consultant - Moe can oversee a surveying team that gets sent to a recently discovered hex, and a month later he can estimate how much gold the hex is worth if you were to mine it, as well as any dangers from doing so. Moe is good at his job and loves the PCs ever since they saved him from the kobolds in the mine, but his wife is the daughter of major crimelord with various interests of his own. The PCs discover a hex that is worth double or triple the normal value, but Moe's father in law has already "staked it out", so Moe claims that the vein is less lucrative and kicks back some of the earnings to the family. If the PCs ever visit the hex, they will see something is off, or maybe if this happens a few times, the treasurer begins to notice inconsistencies in the accounts and tells the PCs that he thinks Moe is swindling them. This leads to interesting conflict and RP opportunities that could go a bunch of different ways, driving adventure on the micro and macro level!

- You can't take the sky from me - Griffons, Wyvern Riders, the sky is literally the limit. When it was still under the control of the Zulkirs, Thay had a large division of elite griffon riders that were trained as Warmages and used as scouts and to support land units.

- I am become DEATH, destroyer of worlds! Undead are a lot more useful in this perspective since they don't cost money to feed, but many of them move very slowly due to vulnerability to daylight unless they're in dark tunnels or a swamp or something. Take a page from the Thayans and have laboratories where you can experiment with and develop new forms of undead. Maybe your PCs won't, but their neighbors might!

- These boots were made for walking... Get inspired by the Ranger's favored terrain and maybe give creatures that are native to a specific region various advantages or faster movement.

- Oh.... the Weather Outside is Frightful... Modify movement, production, food consumption and production based on the season. Basically production grinds to a halt when it snows or something.

- Bandits? We prefer to call ourselves "privateers". - Mercenary companies for hire. With Ogres. Including Hobgoblins, Orcs, Goblinoids, etc. Hire them to harass neighbors.

- Gonna be a baller, a shot caller... Once you're really high level, you would basically be functioning as a patron for other adventurers, thus you could hire minion adventurers to quest on your behalf. For example, the above-mentioned mining operation is threatened by a young dragon, but you're level 19, not worth your time. Hire some adventurers to go and save the village! Make a table that randomly determines which adventurers are available to be hired on a given day/week/month. You could retain the services of an adventurer for a longer period of time, maybe to be the governor of a town. There's gotta be a chance that the adventurer flakes out and goes to do something random, as adventurers are wont to do. Perhaps a rival convinces the adventurer that you're an evil despot that must be dethroned! Suddenly you're defending your castle from these pesky self-righteous adventurers...

- The Truth? You can't HANDLE the truth! The PCs should be asked to sit in judgment over community events and disagreements, over land, resource allocation, maybe the guards are being jerks to the populace but you need them because your outpost is next to a bunch of cannibalistic elves. The decisions should have consequences.

- In today's news You've GOTTA have random events. Famines, earthquakes, plagues, a freak magical phenomenon, discovering a previously unknown gold mine in your borders, usurpers claiming to be the TRUE leader of your kingdom, refugees from an interplanar conflict, Tiamat being summoned by cultists at an ancient site that turns out to be about 4 miles away from your newest village, the discovery of an ancient artifact of evil with dire portents for the future (like the one ring), an ancient prophecy, Drow raids from the underdark.

- Diplomatic Immunity - The PCs should definitely be able to hire and use spies to learn what's happening in neighboring areas, as well as scouts, of course.


Just a few thoughts.
 

The BECMI Rules Cyclopedia on Dndclassica might have relevant rules for this sort of thing that can be transferred over. Nit to mention the CM adventure modules that fit this bill.
 

Remove ads

Top