D&D General 5.5 and making the game easier for players and harder for DMs

[DarkCrisis]

@Arilyn made a post in another thread and 1 thing jumped out.

5. Surprised party just gets disadvantage on initiative now, meaning the surprised party could still go first.

Of course this was also referenced, but I had heard of this one:

4. Potions can be drunk with bonus action. So in middle of fight, a character can smack the monster, grab potion, uncork it and drink it all on their turn

Also a myriad of other changes to various classes to give them an easier time. Like Clerics healing 2D8 base now. And Fey Warlocks teleporting around and being invisibile etc

Keeping in mind all the stuff 5E already does like multiple saves to avoid a bad thing. Resting to fix all your ills. etc etc etc all the stuff we already know about.

I recently watched a Sly Flourish video where he brings some of this up but also quotes from WotC about how all these cool new and upgraded powers will makes things harder on DMs. His biggest question being "Why make things harder for DMs when they spend the most $$$ and have to keep the game running smooth?"

And yes I know the DM can simply change things and add more monsters yes I know but rules as written that most players coming to game will expect.

And yes I know the books arent out yet but the info they have released and the quotes about DMing is actually kind of concerning. This mid edition (or whatever you want to call it) is supposed to clean things up and improve things which I'm sure it does in some areas but giving the players even more Super Powers (which yeah who doesnt like feeling powerful) but at the expense of the DM and keeping the game running smooth and at a decent pace?


Anyways. 5th ed already has already been called "Easy mode". Yes, I know some disagree, I'm just saying it's been called that despite what one thinks. And now it would seem WotC has embraced that to give us "Even Easier Mode"? Baby mode? Lil' Timmy's first RPG? I'm just kidding. Sort of.

By the by, such massive PC abilities would you still want to play a 2014 version? I guess it would depend on the class/subclass?

If we use DOOM skill levels would it be:

Nightmare: AD&D 1E
Ultra-Violence: AD&D 2E
Hurt Me Plenty: 3E 3.5E
Hey, Not To Rough: 5E
I'm Too Young To Die: 5.5E

Where's 4E? It's the Doom Eternal of Dooms. (half love it, half don't)

Yeah so, is 5.5 looking to be "even easier" (increased strength and survivability) for Players and even more frustration for DMs? Can we have that discussion considering the info and previews released despite the actual books not being out yet?

Edit: clarification on increased DM difficulty. Such as more for the DM to keep track of stuff like more status effects and new one every round Etc. 5.5 seems to increase the DMs load due to an increase in player power(s). Which WotC seems aware of and gleeful about.

 

[payn]

I don’t think difficult to kill PCs is a general GM frustration. I think it’s an old school frustration.

 

[Oofta]

I've always adjusted my game to be the threat level the players enjoy. I don't see this being any different. Of course I've also never been afraid of customizing monsters. I regularly add to attack modifiers and damage. I'll sometimes add more HP, especially to casters, if it seems appropriate. But modifying monsters is a whole separate topic. Bonus action to drink potions? Been there, been doing it for a while.

Every group I've ever run for I need to adjust based on the party. It may take a fight or two, but I'm not worried about it. It suspect it will be significantly easier come February when we get a new monster manual of course. Or just get The Tome of Beasts, it has some really awesome monster in there that I throw in now and then. I just have to hold down the XP budget a bit from standard MM.

I would note that because drinking a potion is a bonus action, I make sure that the players can't just buy that 12 pack of heal superior wounds. Either limit funds or limit availability. Or just do more damage and the PCs won't be able to keep up anyway.

 

[GMMichael]

Sounds like a good time to jump ship.

Okay, okay. You're a prisoner below decks - you don't have that option. DMs might buy more books per consumer, but PCs/PHBs could well be the bulk of sales. Meaning that being excited about being a more powerful PC might sell more books in total.

We can't say the new edition is wrong. But we can say that we don't like it.

 

[payn]

We can't say the new edition is wrong. But we can say that we don't like it.

Yeap, a lot of these arguments are constructed to make a preference seem like a problem that needs to be corrected.

 

[TiQuinn]

The Fey Warlock stuff sounds like a PITA. Potions as bonus actions have been a house rule for years so I don’t see that being an issue for anyone in the grand scheme of things. Surprise getting disadvantage can lead to some wonky results but hardly a game breaker; in fact it’s designed to prevent a party from wiping the floor with an encounter.

The biggest problem with making things easy mode though is not that there are new rules to make things easier for the PCs, it’s that so far there’s no sign that they’re making monsters more challenging.

 

[Oofta]

Sounds like a good time to jump ship.

Okay, okay. You're a prisoner below decks - you don't have that option. DMs might buy more books per consumer, but PCs/PHBs could well be the bulk of sales. Meaning that being excited about being a more powerful PC might sell more books in total.

We can't say the new edition is wrong. But we can say that we don't like it.

Good news is, if you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to buy it. If you don't like specific aspect like drinking potions as a bonus action, house rule it. I really don't see what the issue is. Every edition is as hard as the DM and group decides they want it.

 

[Vael]

The focus has been primarily on the player side, but I'm assuming the revised books will see a general power boost on both sides of the DM screen. It's already been said that several monsters have been found to not match their CR. A rearranged DMG with cleaner encounter guidelines will make it easier to test a party.

 

[Minigiant]

I really don't see how this is a problem.

Changes in surprise and in drinking potions just means that the players are more in charge of their own survival.

If anything it means now that if they TPK it's even more their fault. You die, that's on you. Can't blame the DM or WOTC's loosey goosey design as much anymore.

The main thing that Sly Flourish might have a true gripe about is that weapon mastery will allow for more of "4e tactics" and players pushing and dragging foes into Zones and "emanations" and off cliffs and ledges.

Edit: fixed voice to text

 

[overgeeked]

I wonder why it's anything more detailed than "Describe To Me How Awesome You Are As You Win" the RPG.