D&D (2024) 2024 Wings

[Aldarc]

To point out the (flying) elephant in the room, at-will flight at level 1 is already a racial ability in 5e. So, officially, the "should you do this" portion of the question is already answered.

The question then becomes is a cantrip slot enough of a cost for an at-will ability with limited combat use until higher tiers? I guess I could see some abuses if every party member picks it, but would there really be any parties that prioritize such abuses? Especially for a druid/ranger/Magic Initiate only cantrip?

That answers the "is" but not the "ought/should."

 

[Yaarel]

Note that Earth had a thicker atmosphere when Quetzalcoatlus was around. If Jurassic Park happened and Elon Musk genetically engineered a Quetzalcoatlus, it probably wouldn’t be able to fly today. To fly, you need enough lift to overcome your weight and enough thrust to overcome your drag. Fewer air molecules means less lift and less drag, but for a big heckin’ chonker like Quetzalcoatlus, weight is the much bigger issue.

The weight is part of the controversies about Quentzal coatlus.

Apparently, the pterosaur is lighter than originally thought, which by extension required a recalculation of the Quentzalcoatlus.

The computer aerodynamic models have differing calculations, but also have todays atmosphere.

Apparently, the Quentzalcoatlus is a strong flyer, combining soaring and flapping to remain airborne for days, at remarkable speeds.

Ironically you picked a pterosaur to look at for the example here. Animals which could quad launch into the air from a stationary start.

Though yeah, for larger birds or even worse, animals with 4 limbs and 2 wings, running take-off makes a lot more sense.

I am still trying to wrap my head around how a quad launch gains enough speed to get past the minimum speed required to remain airborne.

To point out the (flying) elephant in the room, at-will flight at level 1 is already a racial ability in 5e. So, officially, the "should you do this" portion of the question is already answered.

Both aarakocra and fairy have actual unrestricted flight. But they are noncore, and if opting them in, assume the DM is ready to take on the responsibilities of managing them to balance the entire game around them.

My impression is, the designers definitely want flight at level 1, because it is an archetype that is appealing for new players. But, are now a bit more cautious about flight in core, because it genuinely is powerful compared to other abilities.

The question then becomes is a cantrip slot enough of a cost for an at-will ability with limited combat use until higher tiers? I guess I could see some abuses if every party member picks it, but would there really be any parties that prioritize such abuses? Especially for a druid/ranger/Magic Initiate only cantrip?

If Wings really is comparable to other cantrips, then players will often choose other cantrips instead of it.

Now I'm imagining one that also made your bones temporarily hollow and what the combat implications of that would be....

I am pretending that if the wings are big enough, they can carry non-hollow bones.

I might go with the wingspan requiring the space of two sizes larger − it was a close call anyway.

 

[CleverNickName]

WINGS
Primal, transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: 1 round

You spread your wings and take flight. Use your action, to fly in any direction at a speed equal to your walk speed. While in mid air, you fall if you cease to fly on your next turn. You remain your size, except you require the space for one size larger when your wings extend to fly. You cannot fly if encumbrance exceeds your carrying capacity.

When you gain this cantrip, choose whether your wings appear feathery, leathery, insectile, spectral, or some other appearance. They are part of your permanent appearance. You can fold your wings back in without an action.

At Higher Levels. At 5th level, you gain the ability to hover, thus spending a fly speed to remain in place. At 11th level, you can use your move or your action or both to fly your speed. At level 17, your fly speed increases to double your walk speed.

Honestly? I like it. It's very similar to the Tempestuous Magic ability for the Storm Sorcerer, except:

• the movement equals your walking speed (instead of 10 feet),
• but it costs an Action (instead of a Bonus action, as part of another spell)
• and still provokes Opportunity attacks (unlike the Storm Sorcerer.)

It's a fancy Dash action. I'd allow it at my table.

The only change I would make (and only if this cantrip was causing problems) would be to remove the "At Higher Levels" section. And if it were still causing problems, somehow, I'd add a sentence like "If you are still aloft at the end of the spell's duration, you fall." But I don't think I'd have any issues with it as-written; giving up an Action in exchange for movement--even "fancy" movement--isn't very appealing to my players.

 

[TwoSix]

That answers the "is" but not the "ought/should."

Well, I mean you can certainly question whether WotC "should have" published races with flying at all, of course.

But, purely in terms of judging homebrew, WotC has shifted the "Overton Window", as it were, into having flight at level 1 be acceptable.

 

[Mistwell]

This post proposes a cantrip that grants a character wings and true flight, but in a way that is balanced alongside other cantrips. The purpose of this cantrip is to grant character concepts, including certain races, wings at level 1, in a way that is balanced with other level 1 character concepts.



WINGS
Primal, transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: 1 round

You spread your wings and take flight. Use your action, to fly in any direction at a speed equal to your walk speed. While in mid air, you fall if you cease to fly on your next turn. You remain your size, except you require the space for one size larger when your wings extend to fly. You cannot fly if encumbrance exceeds your carrying capacity.

When you gain this cantrip, choose whether your wings appear feathery, leathery, insectile, spectral, or some other appearance. They are part of your permanent appearance. You can fold your wings back in without an action.

At Higher Levels. At 5th level, you gain the ability to hover, thus spending a fly speed to remain in place. At 11th level, you can use your move or your action or both to fly your speed. At level 17, your fly speed increases to double your walk speed.

It's fine, except the "At Higher Levels." None of that is part of the existing 5e or OneD&D design. The only cantrips which scale are the damage scaling, not the utility increasing over time. And that's purely to make sure it's not useless at higher levels. This cantrip remains exactly as useful with the base power at all levels already, and therefore needs no scaling.

Also of minor note (and I think the issue here isn't your cantrip but the power it's applied to) this cantrip further breaks the Hadozee from Spelljammer. That race, which came out the same week as this playtest, says "You can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you." So you use this cantrip to fly 30' up as an action, and now you fly 5*30= 150 feet horizontally at no additional movement cost. Your movement and bonus actions remain. And that's just with your base cantrip and not the "At Higher Levels" part which would be even more ridiculously overpowered.

 

[TwoSix]

If Wings really is comparable to other cantrips, then players will often choose other cantrips instead of it.

It definitely falls into the category of "it would be a top choice if available, but I'm not going to spend a feat or MC to get it." That's a solid balance point to me.

 

[TwoSix]

It's fine, except the "At Higher Levels." None of that is part of the existing 5e or OneD&D design. The only cantrips which scale are the damage scaling, not the utility increasing over time. And that's purely to make sure it's not useless at higher levels. This cantrip remains exactly as useful with the base power at all levels already, and therefore needs no scaling.

I agree I would be much happier with the cantrip if it didn't scale to the point it grants combat-capable at-will flight.

 

[Yaarel]

It's fine, except the "At Higher Levels." None of that is part of the existing 5e or OneD&D design. The only cantrips which scale are the damage scaling, not the utility increasing over time.

The 2014 spell format "At Higher Levels." Is fine. I feel it is overly restrictive. The issue becomes apparent when translating 3e psionic spells (powers) into 5e: the 3e augmentation points are identical to the "At Higher Levels" higher slots. However, the augmentation can spend points to modify the effect in several ways, whereas the 5e Higher slots tends to restrict the augmentation to only one kind of way. For example, the 5e "Mass" spells are simply the lower level spells but using a higher slot for the effect to affect more targets.

In any case, there are occasionally 5e spells that use the At Higher Levels format for unusual modifications, such as using a higher level slot to change a concentration spell into a spell that no longer requires concentration.

The At Higher Levels can and should be used more freely to modify an effect in appropriate ways for the corresponding level.

For Wings, the At Higher Levels format is in use to clarify how the cantrip functions when at higher levels.

And that's purely to make sure it's not useless at higher levels. This cantrip remains exactly as useful with the base power at all levels already, and therefore needs no scaling.

For esthetic reasons. The character actually has wings. To force a character to need to use a different spell, or worse, a magic item, in order to fly during combat, feels inappropriate.

At the upper tiers, most characters gains some means to fly. Flight is normal and even assumed. The cantrip needs to remain useful even at such tiers. Especially someone with wings needs to be able to fly adequately.

The combat capability doesnt happen until level 11! This is more than high enough to be appropriate for balance.

 

[CleverNickName]

After some thought, here's how I would probably handle it for my table. But only if the player specifically asked for a cantrip that would allow their character to fly, and wasn't already a Storm Sorcerer. I wouldn't volunteer this out of the blue.

Spoiler: CleverNickName's Variant

WINGS
Primal, transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 Bonus action
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: 1 round

You may spread your wings and take flight. Use your action, to fly in any direction at a speed equal to your walk speed. While in mid air, you fall if you cease to fly on your next turn. You remain your size, except you require the space for one size larger when your wings extend to fly. You cannot fly if encumbrance exceeds your carrying capacity. You can use a Bonus action on your turn to cause whirling gusts of elemental air to briefly surround you, immediately before or after you cast a spell of 1st level or higher. Doing so allows you to fly up to 10 feet without provoking Opportunity attacks.

When you gain this cantrip, choose whether your wings appear feathery, leathery, insectile, spectral, or some other appearance. They are part of your permanent appearance. You can fold your wings back in without an action.

At Higher Levels. At 5th level, you gain the ability to hover, thus spending a fly speed to remain in place. At 11th level, you can use your move or your action or both to fly your speed. At level 17, your fly speed increases to double your walk speed. As your level increases, you may fly greater distances. At 5th level, you may fly up to 20 feet with this cantrip. At 11th level you may fly up to 30 feet, and at 17th level you may fly up to 40 feet with this cantrip.

 

[Mistwell]

The 2014 spell format "At Higher Levels." Is fine. I feel it is overly restrictive. The issue becomes apparent when translating 3e psionic spells (powers) into 5e: the 3e augmentation points are identical to the "At Higher Levels" higher slots. However, the augmentation can spend points to modify the effect in several ways, whereas the 5e Higher slots tends to restrict the augmentation to only one kind of way. For example, the 5e "Mass" spells are simply the lower level spells but using a higher slot for the effect to affect more targets.

In any case, there are occasionally 5e spells that use the At Higher Levels format for unusual modifications, such as using a higher level slot to change a concentration spell into a spell that no longer requires concentration.

As a first level spell this "At Higher Levels" entry would be fine. But it's unprecedented for a cantrip. Cantrips do not, ever, scale in that way in 5e and there is no indication that's changing with OneD&D. ONLY damage scales, and only to make it not useless at higher levels. IF a cantrip maintains the same utility at level 20 as it does at level one, like in this case that you can fly your movement speed as an action, it does not scale with level. Ever.

The At Higher Levels can and should be used more freely to modify an effect in appropriate ways for the corresponding level.

For Wings, the At Higher Levels format is in use to clarify how the cantrip functions when at higher levels.

It can and should scale for non-cantrips. There is a huge meaningful difference between expending a limited resources spell with a level, and expending an unlimited resource spell in a cantrip. It's so huge that only the very highest level spellcasters can turn a first level spell into a cantrip-like spell. I think it's very clear this cantrip as currently written would never pass muster with a WOTC editor, or be looked on favorably in the third party marketplace, because it breaks the long standing rule that cantrips only scale damage and not utility.

At the upper tiers, most characters gains some means to fly. Flight is normal and even assumed. The cantrip needs to remain useful even at such tiers. Especially someone with wings needs to be able to fly adequately.

At upper tiers ALL cantrips lose a great deal of their utility. Even Guidance often loses utility, as a PC gains more and more proficiency in skills and expertise in skills and abilities which benefit skills. Even the attack cantrips which have their damage scale lose a great deal of utility at upper tiers because casters have so many spell slots. That's the nature of cantrips. It's part of the point of cantrips as a system. You're attempting to change the nature of cantrips - and I am suggesting you're going to shift a meaningful portion of the balance of the game by doing that.

The combat capability doesnt happen until level 11! This is more than high enough to be appropriate for balance.

It really isn't. I mean, use it and let us know how it goes I guess. But if you're soliciting advice, I advise cutting the "At Higher Levels" part entirely.