5' Step in Difficult Terrain

[irdeggman]

I prefer to think of it as moving from one square to another. The distance you move is 5ft, but you are moving through both squares. Do you play it as a sort of teleport out of your square? If you are in a tar pit, you allow someone to 5ft-step out of it? If someone is levitating (not flying, no fly speed), do you allow them to 5ft-step sideways onto a ledge? Can someone without a swim speed 5ft-step out of water (say someone with a perfect fly speed but fully submerged just below the surface)?

If you are moving 5ft and the square you start in is difficult terrain it counts as 2 movement points correct?

But the rules specifically show that the square you start in does not count for movement.

It's also very clear from the rules that a large creature is affected by the worst terrain his Space touches. It's also clear that the rules say "through".

Because when large creatures move they are moving multiple areas - that is their rear is moving into the square previously occupied by their front. And the movement rules clearly are applying to the square you are moving into not the one you are leaving. The exception being AoO of course.

 

[irdeggman]

I prefer to think of it as moving from one square to another. The distance you move is 5ft, but you are moving through both squares. Do you play it as a sort of teleport out of your square? If you are in a tar pit, you allow someone to 5ft-step out of it? If someone is levitating (not flying, no fly speed), do you allow them to 5ft-step sideways onto a ledge? Can someone without a swim speed 5ft-step out of water (say someone with a perfect fly speed but fully submerged just below the surface)?

Tar pit is a specific condition like entangle or quicksand and not a generic one like "difficult terrain".

Do you require a character to perform a swim check to step out of the water?

Does a character occupy every position in the square he is in at the same time or is in one specific section of the square and has to "move" across it? If he can be anywhere (and everywhere) in the square then why isn't he at the farthest edge so that he need not move "through" the terrain of the square itself (barring specific conditions, terrains, etc. that specify otherwise).

Basically the RAW assumes that a character is everywhere within a square throughout his turn so he can be at any edge whenever he needs to be.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If you are moving 5ft and the square you start in is difficult terrain it counts as 2 movement points correct?

But the rules specifically show that the square you start in does not count for movement.

The rules specifically show that for large creatures, you take the worst of the squares. In the case of moving from one square to another, I would apply that rule in the context of the word "through". Thus, moving 5ft from a difficult terrain square to a non-difficult terrain square would cost 10ft. Also, moving from non-difficult to difficult would cost 10ft. Moving from non-difficult to non-difficult would cost 5ft and thus would allow a 5ft-step.

I not only think that the rules support this, I think it is the most logical application of the rules. That said, it is not the only interpretation, but the others have no greater support and make less sense.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Tar pit is a specific condition like entangle or quicksand and not a generic one like "difficult terrain".

Are there specific rules on a tar pit? I didn't think there were, but regardless, what rule disallows you stepping out of an entangle? Doesn't the rule you follow stipulate that the starting square is irrelevant? This is why I asked about the water, which you must have thought rhetorical. I'd like you to answer it, please.

Do you require a character to perform a swim check to step out of the water?

If he's swimming, of course I do. You don't require a swim check if someone is swimming? If he's on the edge of a tight rope would you require a balance check? If he's at the edge of a solid fog, what happens then in your view? I think your interpretation is trivially negated by such examples.

Basically the RAW assumes that a character is everywhere within a square throughout his turn so he can be at any edge whenever he needs to be.

Yes about the assumption, but your conclusion is a non sequitur. He's everywhere and therefore cannot pick an edge. A blade barrier that bisects his square, for instance, will affect the character regardless of what point in the square the character stated he was in.

 

[Mistwell]

From Sage Advice

Q: Dear Sage,
What exactly does the knight’s bulwark of defense class feature (Player’s Handbook II, 28) do? Does an adjacent enemy have to make a Balance check to remain standing?
--Greg

A: This class feature simply makes it difficult for an adjacent foe to move around you, as all squares you threaten are considered difficult terrain (and thus cost 1 extra square of movement to enter). The most significant benefit is that an enemy that begins its turn in a square threatened by you can’t use a 5-foot step to move to another square threatened by you.

It doesn’t prevent an enemy from backing away from you normally (assuming you don’t have extraordinary reach), and it certainly doesn’t require any special skill checks to navigate the affected squares.

 

[irdeggman]

Are there specific rules on a tar pit? I didn't think there were, but regardless, what rule disallows you stepping out of an entangle? Doesn't the rule you follow stipulate that the starting square is irrelevant? This is why I asked about the water, which you must have thought rhetorical. I'd like you to answer it, please.

If he's swimming, of course I do. You don't require a swim check if someone is swimming? If he's on the edge of a tight rope would you require a balance check? If he's at the edge of a solid fog, what happens then in your view? I think your interpretation is trivially negated by such examples.

If the square he is in counts as the worst type of terrain then it doesn't matter if he is swimming or not. Movement through water squares requires a swim check. Say you are at the edge of a pool and want to get out. Does it require a swim check or is it a normal movement?

Yes about the assumption, but your conclusion is a non sequitur. He's everywhere and therefore cannot pick an edge. A blade barrier that bisects his square, for instance, will affect the character regardless of what point in the square the character stated he was in.

So he doesn't have to cross the distance of the square he is in then and would be unafffected by that terrain.

 

[irdeggman]

The rules specifically show that for large creatures, you take the worst of the squares. In the case of moving from one square to another, I would apply that rule in the context of the word "through". Thus, moving 5ft from a difficult terrain square to a non-difficult terrain square would cost 10ft. Also, moving from non-difficult to difficult would cost 10ft. Moving from non-difficult to non-difficult would cost 5ft and thus would allow a 5ft-step.

I not only think that the rules support this, I think it is the most logical application of the rules. That said, it is not the only interpretation, but the others have no greater support and make less sense.

Moving from difficult non-terrain to non-difficult terrain costs 10 ft?

This is clearly not in accordance with the example in the PHB pg 147 It costs 1 square of movement for the first square and 2 for the second when moving in a diagonal. You interpretation would mean that it costs 2 to move into the first square and then another 2 to move into the next (actually 3 since it costs 1 extra for the second).

Even better look at the difficult terrain example on pg 148.

2 squares to move into the 1st square of difficult terrain, another 2 square to move to the next one, another 3 to move to the first diagonal and then 1 to move out of the difficult terrain into non-difficult terrain. Total of 8 squares of movement in the example.

 

[irdeggman]

Are there specific rules on a tar pit? I didn't think there were, but regardless, what rule disallows you stepping out of an entangle? Doesn't the rule you follow stipulate that the starting square is irrelevant? This is why I asked about the water, which you must have thought rhetorical. I'd like you to answer it, please.

Well I assume that you were applying some specific rule for a tar pit since yuo brought it up. I have seen no description of it.

Entangle has a specific rule regarding moving out at all. that is why I brought it up. There is no such rule for a generic "difficult terrain". There may be one for tar, I haven't seen but I could envision it being real similar to the effect of an entangle.

Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.

Quicksand similarly has a specific rule:

Effects of Quicksand: Characters in quicksand must make a DC 10 Swim check every round to simply tread water in place, or a DC 15 Swim check to move 5 feet in whatever direction is desired. If a trapped character fails this check by 5 or more, he sinks below the surface and begins to drown whenever he can no longer hold his breath (see the Swim skill description).

Characters below the surface of a bog may swim back to the surface with a successful Swim check (DC 15, +1 per consecutive round of being under the surface).

Bogs require 2 square to move into, nothing specified about moving out of.

Bogs: If a square is part of a shallow bog, it has deep mud or standing water of about 1 foot in depth. It costs 2 squares of movement to move into a square with a shallow bog, and the DC of Tumble checks in such a square increases by 2.

By the way are you having a rough day? You seem to be tad bit snippy in your replies to me here.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yep, reach weapons are the way to go for a knight. Just slap on a buckler and use that shield block when you can, but one-handed weapons are for suckers

Not entirely true, after all very few D&D fights occur in completely open terrain, and even those that do you have other party members that help out. I've been playing a sword and board Knight and not had too much trouble pinning opponents against walls or other objects.

Plus the higher AC from having a Heavy shield means you rarely get hit, so have a load more hit points in reserve to use Shield Ally to save the weaker party members.Since playing the Knight I've stopped three character deaths with Shield Ally, I see that as a much more useful ability that Bulwark of Defense when it comes to protection.