5' step, partial actions and haste

[Virago]

Joy, this topic.

firstly, is a 5'step allowed with a partial action? if one can do a partial charge, i don't see why not

I've seen the Sage rule both ways on this, more recently on the "no" side (unless there's been a further flip-flop?).

I think the rules come down in favor of the "yes" answer.

But then the action rules are a bit miserably written, especially in the partial action area. I can easily imagine that the intent of the rules is that a 5' step will not mix with any move action elsewhere in the round.

secondly, if the answer to the above is yes, can a hasted character do: 5' step out of melée range > drink potion > 5' back into melée range > full attack action

If the answer above is "yes," another question is "do these 5' steps avoid AoOs?"

One could say "no" based on PHB p. 117: "If your entire move for the round is 5 feet (a 5-foot step), enemies do not get attacks of opportunity for you moving" and interpreting it a bit more if-and-only-if.

I would elevate this over the glossary definition for no particular reason except that the p. 117 definition is more nice and pure, and the glossary thinks there's such thing as a shield bonus. But then again, so does page 117.

Also one might compare these hasted move sequences:

(1) (attack, move 10) + (attack)
(2) (attack, 5' step) + (5' step, attack)

(1) Draws an AoO in any interp. (2) Seems essentially the same deal as (1), but doesn't draw an AoO by the glossary 5' step interpretation.

You be the judge. Personally I think haste could use a little nerfing.

 

[dcollins]

I've seen the Sage rule both ways on this, more recently on the "no" side (unless there's been a further flip-flop?).

Just wanted to back-up Virago here. The Sage has in fact ruled both ways at different times on this issue, most recently "no".

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Most people on the old boards came to the agreement that the action that is taken within the haste partial action should be taken as a different set of actions in the round. At least it seemed that way to me.

This means:

You can use haste to move one direction then charge a different direction.

You can take a 5' step in the partial action, regardless what you do in the standard action, and vise versa.

You can do a normal move away from a threatened area with your partial action, then do something with your normal action, and vise versa without provoking an AoO for leaving the first area.

This goes against some of the rules as written, but I don't think the rules as written take haste into account, and I think a lot of others agree with me.

--Ambassador Spikey

 

[Artoomis]

The answer lies wihtint what you can do within a round, as opposed to what you can do combined with an action.

So, yes, you can full attack and take a 5' step.

And, yes, if you take only a partial action, you can take a partial attack and move 5'.

But what about hasted?

FIrst, the rule say that "typically" you can take a 5-foot step with a partial action. I submit that a hasted action is not a "typical" scenario, so that this does not somehow create a new exception to the 5' move per round.

I am reasonably certain that you'll find that the PHB specifies a 5'-step as a minor adjustment in position that is a freebie once per round if you do no other movement.

Since it is per round, haste does not change what is allowed. All this discussion of which actions "allow" a 5'-step will take you down the wrong path - try thinking of it as a list of actions that do not, by themselves, disallow a 5'-step.

Thus, in the example presented, you are drinkning a potion druing your partial action. this does not disallow you taking a 5'-step this round.

You also wish to do a full-attack during your regular action. This also does not disallow a 5'-step in this round.

Thus, even with both actions, you are still allowed to take a 5' step this round. But only one.

Does this help?

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Hey Arty, show me one place in any 3E rule book where it says that an action doesn't preclude a 5' step instead of this action allows a 5' step.

You logic is convoluted and more complicated than it needs to be.

While you start to drink the potion, you step away so you don't get smacked, then when you start to make your attack, you step back in.

You're hasted, you're going 1.5 times faster than you normally do, why wouldn't you be able to use your feet twice while you use your arms twice?

--Bedazzled Spikey

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

What about this:

The rules state that you provoke no AoO if you move only 5 feet in the round.

If you are hasted you can indeed take 2 X 5 feet step because you have two actions but then you have moved 10 feet in the round and provoke an AoO.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

What about this:

The rules state that you provoke no AoO if you move only 5 feet in the round.

If you are hasted you can indeed take 2 X 5 feet step because you have two actions but then you have moved 10 feet in the round and provoke an AoO.

This is likely to cause the "okay, then lets go back in time and resolve the AoO that you provoked that we didn't know you did at the time" problem.

--Temporally Challenged Spikey

 

[Artoomis]

If a combatant's entire move for the round is 5 feet the 5 foot move does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

This implies you get only one free 5-foot adjustment per round, but maybe you don't agree? In certainly says "per round."

I have not found an explicit reference in the PHB that says you get only 1 5'-move per round - it seems to talk all around that without ever clearly stating the rule. I'm probably just missing something, somewhwere.

It seems to me if you want to tie 5-foot move to actions instead of rounds you could ptoentially get two of them in a regular round, and surely THAT is wrong. How? How about two move-equivalent actions that both "allow" a 5-foot step?

I assume no one thinks that's correct.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

How about two move-equivalent actions that both "allow" a 5-foot step?

Can you take 2 MEAs in a normal round?

You haven't really addressed why I think the rules would allow for 2 adjustment steps.

Haste wasn't taken into account, and it changes the rules in a way that removes a lot of restrictions. It basically gives you another action that doesn't suffer from the normal "in the same round" restriction.

At least that's the way I see it.

--Lazy Spikey

 

[Number47]

I think the principle of Occam's Razor applies here: the simplest solution is probably the best one.

Getting an extra partial action that has nothing to do with your full-round action is the simplest solution. The actions do not "see" each other.

You can make it more complex than it needs to be, but that isn't what 3E is all about.