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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6781300" data-attributes="member: 996">Given the latitude the DM has, not /that/ difficult.&nbsp; Maybe difficult to do without feeling like a jerk or stretching credulity, but you can always throw another/tougher encounter at the party until you've attritted them to your satisfaction.That's a failure of hps if hps are meant to model broken arms, if you accept that they're meant to model the 'plot armor' of genre fiction, it's a success.&nbsp;So, 5e isn't trying to be exciting, but...&nbsp;...you can try to make it more exciting. 'Or something' being about 30 of the available sub-classes in the PH.&nbsp; The choiceless non-casters are really there for people who abhor making choices.&nbsp; The built-in assumption that those people never want to play someone who tosses magic, or that no one who wants to make a meaningful choice now and then would be interested in a non-caster class is problem, though.&nbsp; It's the same problem as &quot;high level doesn't need to be well-designed, and let's just speed through it, because 'no one plays high-level that much'&quot; - the game has always (or almost always) been really bad at certain things, so it's easy to look at patterns of how people actually play and see a preference for (or at least indifference to) things being bad in exactly those ways.[sblock=&quot;13A fighter SUX rant&quot;]I played a 13A Fighter once.&nbsp; It was in a playtest, but they haven't changed since then.&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess it goes to show you how much tastes vary.&nbsp; I found the 13A fighter absolutely appalling.&nbsp; It's a 0-agency class, it doesn't need a player, it needs a few line of code - it's not a character, it's a mob.&nbsp; It just takes a random walk through the combat, with the dice dictating everything, an example of literal 'roll playing.'&nbsp; The 13A expansion of dice mechanics to determine the activation of abilities is a great innovation for monsters, lightening the DM's load noticeably, and works OK as a resource-limiter for PC (your roll determines whether the ability stays available or needs to recharge) but as an activator (determining when you use an ability) it should never be inflicted on any PC class.&nbsp; [/sblock]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6781300, member: 996"] Given the latitude the DM has, not /that/ difficult. Maybe difficult to do without feeling like a jerk or stretching credulity, but you can always throw another/tougher encounter at the party until you've attritted them to your satisfaction. That's a failure of hps if hps are meant to model broken arms, if you accept that they're meant to model the 'plot armor' of genre fiction, it's a success. So, 5e isn't trying to be exciting, but... ...you can try to make it more exciting. 'Or something' being about 30 of the available sub-classes in the PH. The choiceless non-casters are really there for people who abhor making choices. The built-in assumption that those people never want to play someone who tosses magic, or that no one who wants to make a meaningful choice now and then would be interested in a non-caster class is problem, though. It's the same problem as "high level doesn't need to be well-designed, and let's just speed through it, because 'no one plays high-level that much'" - the game has always (or almost always) been really bad at certain things, so it's easy to look at patterns of how people actually play and see a preference for (or at least indifference to) things being bad in exactly those ways. [sblock="13A fighter SUX rant"]I played a 13A Fighter once. It was in a playtest, but they haven't changed since then. I guess it goes to show you how much tastes vary. I found the 13A fighter absolutely appalling. It's a 0-agency class, it doesn't need a player, it needs a few line of code - it's not a character, it's a mob. It just takes a random walk through the combat, with the dice dictating everything, an example of literal 'roll playing.' The 13A expansion of dice mechanics to determine the activation of abilities is a great innovation for monsters, lightening the DM's load noticeably, and works OK as a resource-limiter for PC (your roll determines whether the ability stays available or needs to recharge) but as an activator (determining when you use an ability) it should never be inflicted on any PC class. [/sblock] [/QUOTE]

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