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General Tabletop Discussion
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5e combat system too simple / boring?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6781724" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>In combat, my Bard engages in <em>vicious mockery</em> quite frequently, but out of combat he's in the running for the most serious party member.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I...don't actually want <em>illusion</em> of choice, though. My experience with 4e hasn't felt like an "illusion" of choice. I have enough variety of options from level-up powers that I can actually have meaningfully different options each turn, like a single-target spike, a whirlwind attack, etc. I honestly didn't play that much of 3e, in part because of the illusory "choices" you mention (particularly since specialization was the only way to make <em>one</em> of them good...unless you were a caster, of course. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue :P" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Kay so...I'm playing a Valor Bard, rather than Lore...and even if I weren't, I would only have <em>just</em> gotten it last session. So that's not super helpful, just from the get-go. (And, before it's asked: the DM insisted on beginning at level 1. I <em>did</em> ask, once, politely.)</p><p></p><p>Secondly, I never said I <em>don't care at all</em> what other people are doing. I do care. But with only two uses of Bardic Inspiration <em>per day</em>, and at the moment *zero* things I can do with my reaction (not counting OAs), I don't really have a whole lot of options there. I had hoped that I could initiate some combos by grappling enemies, but my character is so fragile that trying to engage in melee has proven a death sentence (in one case, literally). I've handed out my BI dice...and then they typically go unused, even though I made every effort to remind people about them.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what else I can be doing. I wanted to be providing a form of battlefield control by Grappling enemies (the Moon Druid typically takes Wolf form, so we have ample sources of Prone already), but as stated before, I got so thoroughly screwed up for trying, multiple times, I'm afraid to risk my character's life again. I wanted my spells to be clever battlefield-manipulations (my character sees himself as a budding blademaster), but instead they end up going almost purely to healing because combats have pasted us multiple times (in the span of...6 or 7 sessions, we've rolled <em>at least</em> 15 death saves between the five of us).</p><p></p><p>My point about the "enjoying other peoples' turns" was not that I don't <em>care</em> what they do, but rather that what others do doesn't define my <em>engagement</em> with the rules. Whether I have to exert cognitive effort to participate in the fight is completely orthogonal to whether I care about the things other people are doing during their turns. As it stands, I feel like I have too few tools to work with, too few opportunities to use the tools I have, and too much pressure to conserve extremely precious resources because most every fight is a harrowing, barely-survived-with-some-people-bleeding-out experience. Most of the time, there's either too little material to engage with, or I don't get the chance to engage at all (like the combat where I dropped from full to 0 HP in the middle of the first round, because it's totally cool for a CR 2 enemy to have three attacks and thus do more average damage than I have health as a level 2 Bard).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6781724, member: 6790260"] In combat, my Bard engages in [I]vicious mockery[/I] quite frequently, but out of combat he's in the running for the most serious party member. I...don't actually want [I]illusion[/I] of choice, though. My experience with 4e hasn't felt like an "illusion" of choice. I have enough variety of options from level-up powers that I can actually have meaningfully different options each turn, like a single-target spike, a whirlwind attack, etc. I honestly didn't play that much of 3e, in part because of the illusory "choices" you mention (particularly since specialization was the only way to make [I]one[/I] of them good...unless you were a caster, of course. :P) Kay so...I'm playing a Valor Bard, rather than Lore...and even if I weren't, I would only have [I]just[/I] gotten it last session. So that's not super helpful, just from the get-go. (And, before it's asked: the DM insisted on beginning at level 1. I [I]did[/I] ask, once, politely.) Secondly, I never said I [I]don't care at all[/I] what other people are doing. I do care. But with only two uses of Bardic Inspiration [I]per day[/I], and at the moment *zero* things I can do with my reaction (not counting OAs), I don't really have a whole lot of options there. I had hoped that I could initiate some combos by grappling enemies, but my character is so fragile that trying to engage in melee has proven a death sentence (in one case, literally). I've handed out my BI dice...and then they typically go unused, even though I made every effort to remind people about them. I'm not sure what else I can be doing. I wanted to be providing a form of battlefield control by Grappling enemies (the Moon Druid typically takes Wolf form, so we have ample sources of Prone already), but as stated before, I got so thoroughly screwed up for trying, multiple times, I'm afraid to risk my character's life again. I wanted my spells to be clever battlefield-manipulations (my character sees himself as a budding blademaster), but instead they end up going almost purely to healing because combats have pasted us multiple times (in the span of...6 or 7 sessions, we've rolled [I]at least[/I] 15 death saves between the five of us). My point about the "enjoying other peoples' turns" was not that I don't [I]care[/I] what they do, but rather that what others do doesn't define my [I]engagement[/I] with the rules. Whether I have to exert cognitive effort to participate in the fight is completely orthogonal to whether I care about the things other people are doing during their turns. As it stands, I feel like I have too few tools to work with, too few opportunities to use the tools I have, and too much pressure to conserve extremely precious resources because most every fight is a harrowing, barely-survived-with-some-people-bleeding-out experience. Most of the time, there's either too little material to engage with, or I don't get the chance to engage at all (like the combat where I dropped from full to 0 HP in the middle of the first round, because it's totally cool for a CR 2 enemy to have three attacks and thus do more average damage than I have health as a level 2 Bard). [/QUOTE]
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