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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6785656" data-attributes="member: 5834">The fact that you're using monsters beyond deadly with environmental challenges only confirms what we've all been saying: 5E monster are weak if you follow the guidelines for their use. That's the disconnect in this discussion between us. None of us are saying that you can't build a challenging fight in 5E. We're just saying that out of the box, the game is soft and the encounter guidelines don't provide the challenge befitting the name. This can go both ways with some creatures that are lower xp being much harder and some monsters that are higher xp being much easier. When compared to older editions, this one doesn't have the lethality for things like energy drain, critical hits, death saves, and the like. It's all built around hit point attrition even if you're a paralyzed guy laying on the ground.D&amp;D out of the box was always fairly soft with some outliers for missed saves outright killing you in older editions. 3E/Pathfinder CRs and encounter building guidelines weren't helpful. You had to build stuff to fit your party or they would get wasted. I had that system down. I could build encounters to fit what I wanted them to do very well. I don't have that kind of system mastery with 5E yet.The the following analogy fits closer to my view, &quot;Challenging experts with a game made for novices don't work.&quot; I've acknowledged that with 5E and started building my own stuff to get what done what I want to get done.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 6785656, member: 5834"] The fact that you're using monsters beyond deadly with environmental challenges only confirms what we've all been saying: 5E monster are weak if you follow the guidelines for their use. That's the disconnect in this discussion between us. None of us are saying that you can't build a challenging fight in 5E. We're just saying that out of the box, the game is soft and the encounter guidelines don't provide the challenge befitting the name. This can go both ways with some creatures that are lower xp being much harder and some monsters that are higher xp being much easier. When compared to older editions, this one doesn't have the lethality for things like [I]energy drain[/I], critical hits, death saves, and the like. It's all built around hit point attrition even if you're a paralyzed guy laying on the ground. D&D out of the box was always fairly soft with some outliers for missed saves outright killing you in older editions. 3E/[I]Pathfinder[/I] CRs and encounter building guidelines weren't helpful. You had to build stuff to fit your party or they would get wasted. I had that system down. I could build encounters to fit what I wanted them to do very well. I don't have that kind of system mastery with 5E yet. The the following analogy fits closer to my view, "Challenging experts with a game made for novices don't work." I've acknowledged that with 5E and started building my own stuff to get what done what I want to get done. [/QUOTE]

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