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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GX.Sigma" data-source="post: 6793719" data-attributes="member: 6690511">This matches a lot of my experience and feeling in the first year and a half of running 5e. Inevitably, the more you are able to customize your character, the more optimization is possible. My first 5e group was mostly "power gamers"--they were new to D&D, but they were very competitive at MTG and Diablo. They built their characters by looking in the PHB for the most powerful combinations possible. The game consistently felt way too easy, and it got boring for me (the DM), and probably for them too. This may have also been because the challenges in the official adventures are laughably easy even for a non-optimizing party. If I was a better DM and willing to put in the effort, I maybe could have made it challenging enough (though their numbers were truly outrageous)These days, I'm running for a different "group" (a brother and sister pair). They're also new to TRPG. They're pretty hardcore gamers, but they don't care about character building. They have access to the full PHB, but they're essentially both using pre-gens. And you know what? We're all having a great time. The players are acting in character, and interacting with their surroundings in a natural and organic way.I think the real lesson here (beyond "don't play with optimizers") is that if you want to cut down on optimization, you have to cut down on options. I don't think it's a coincidence that my first campaign (with character building) was boring, and my second campaign (with pregens) was fun. I agree that 5e's feats lead to boring gameplay, so I intend to restrict them from now on. Actually, here is my full list of tweaks for a hypothetical future "basic 5e" campaign:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Roll stats in order with 3d6 (you can switch any pair of scores, you may reroll if total mods are negative)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Restricted class/subclass list (Fighter/Champion/Battlemaster/Eldritchknight, Rogue/Thief, Wizard/all, Barbarian/Berserker, maybe Cleric/some)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Humans only, for story reasons, but demihumans would theoretically be restricted to certain classes (Moon Elf = Bard, Wood Elf = Ranger, Dwarf = Fighter, etc.) and have "personality trait" baggage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Restricted feat list (basically just Magic Initiate and the ones that give you new proficiencies)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">No multiclassing unless you really really want to</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Most XP doesn't come from combat</li> </ol></blockquote>

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