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5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8869833" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>I'd make the Armour Class depend on the source dragon's species rather than age.</p><p></p><p>Maybe make it 4 points lower than an Ancient Dragon of its colour/metal, so White & Brass Dragon Warriors are AC 16, Green & Copper are AC 17, and Black, Blue, Red, Bronze & Gold are AC 18?</p><p></p><p>Can go either way on the Shields. It's only the illustration that shows shields, the only equipment mentioned in the Description is Scale Mail and Broadsword.</p><p></p><p>If they did have shields and we have an AC range from 16 to 18 that matches Scale (AC 14) plus a Shield and DEX (+0 to +2). Since +2 is the maximum DEX bonus for Medium Armour like Scale that sort of fits.</p><p></p><p>However, if we're doing multiple ACs I'm tempted to go the whole hog and do six steps like the AD&D originals and give them a range of Challenge Ratings.</p><p></p><p>Let's see, the CRs of 5E SRD Dragons are…</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px">Fifth Edition Dragons Challenge Ratings</span></strong></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><th><p style="text-align: left">Dragon</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: left">Wyrmling</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: left">Young</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: left">Adult</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: left">Ancient</p> </th></tr><tr><td>Black</td><td>CR 2</td><td>CR 7</td><td>CR 14</td><td>CR 21</td></tr><tr><td>Blue</td><td>CR 3</td><td>CR 9</td><td>CR 16</td><td>CR 23</td></tr><tr><td>Green</td><td>CR 2</td><td>CR 8</td><td>CR 15</td><td>CR 22</td></tr><tr><td>Red</td><td>CR 4</td><td>CR 10</td><td>CR 17</td><td>CR 24</td></tr><tr><td>White</td><td>CR 2</td><td>CR 6</td><td>CR 13</td><td>CR 20</td></tr><tr><td>Brass</td><td>CR 1</td><td>CR 6</td><td>CR 13</td><td>CR 20</td></tr><tr><td>Bronze</td><td>CR 2</td><td>CR 8</td><td>CR 15</td><td>CR 22</td></tr><tr><td>Copper</td><td>CR 1</td><td>CR 7</td><td>CR 14</td><td>CR 21</td></tr><tr><td>Gold</td><td>CR 3</td><td>CR 10</td><td>CR 17</td><td>CR 24</td></tr><tr><td>Silver</td><td>CR 2</td><td>CR 9</td><td>CR 16</td><td>CR 23</td></tr></table><p></p><p>That's interesting. I thought the Chromatic Dragons and Metallic Dragons were similarly powerful in 5E across the age spectrum, but Metallics Wyrmlings are noticeably weaker than Chromatic Wyrmlings.</p><p></p><p>In AD&D of course (and 3E) Metallics were slightly stronger than Chromatics (for an equivalent rank in the dragon hierarchy obviously: an Ancient White is not quite as nasty as an Ancient Brass but still way meaner than a Hatchling), but in 5E a Chromatic Dragon has a definite edge at the Wyrmling stage.</p><p></p><p>I wonder this precociousness is due to the evil dragons having poor parental care, so they've evolved tougher wyrmlings better able to look after themselves?</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, for most of the ages the 5E Dragons have a five step spread of CRs, so maybe we could do the same for the Dragon Warriors? Perhaps use a five step spread of ACs too, for the sake of symmetry? For example, AC 15–19 or 16–20. Although a six step spread would follow the original source material precisely and might make it easier to tweak the Challenge Ratings.</p><p></p><p>Using a five-step CR spread would require us to vary the Hit Dice and DPR of the Dragon Warriors more than the <em>White Dwarf</em> versions though. There'd be quite a difference between, say, a CR 3 Brass or White Warrior and a CR 7 Gold or Red Warrior.</p><p></p><p>It might be better to use a three point Challenge spread like the 5E Wyrmlings, so if a Brass Warrior is CR 3 a Gold one might be CR 5? Or perhaps four points Challenge spread like that from a CR 1 Brass or Copper Wyrmling to a CR 4 Red Wyrmling?</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, I'm just spitballing ideas here.</p><p></p><p>The original <em>One-Eyed Canyon</em> adventure features four Dragon Warrior Teeth "donated" by an Adult Gold Dragon.</p><p></p><p>If we do do the full range of standard Dragons, it shouldn't take that much longer than doing one since we'd presumably give them all the same or similar "Warrior powers" and it'd just be some numbers and their dragon's breath-based immunities (and maybe damage type?).</p><p></p><p>It would be tempting to tweak some of their stats to reflect the idiosyncrasies of a particular type of dragon. For example, Black and Gold Dragons have DEX 14, Copper and Green have DEX 12 and the rest of the standard True Dragons have DEX 10.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8869833, member: 57383"] I'd make the Armour Class depend on the source dragon's species rather than age. Maybe make it 4 points lower than an Ancient Dragon of its colour/metal, so White & Brass Dragon Warriors are AC 16, Green & Copper are AC 17, and Black, Blue, Red, Bronze & Gold are AC 18? Can go either way on the Shields. It's only the illustration that shows shields, the only equipment mentioned in the Description is Scale Mail and Broadsword. If they did have shields and we have an AC range from 16 to 18 that matches Scale (AC 14) plus a Shield and DEX (+0 to +2). Since +2 is the maximum DEX bonus for Medium Armour like Scale that sort of fits. However, if we're doing multiple ACs I'm tempted to go the whole hog and do six steps like the AD&D originals and give them a range of Challenge Ratings. Let's see, the CRs of 5E SRD Dragons are… [B][SIZE=5]Fifth Edition Dragons Challenge Ratings[/SIZE][/B] [TABLE] [TR] [TH][LEFT]Dragon[/LEFT][/TH] [TH][LEFT]Wyrmling[/LEFT][/TH] [TH][LEFT]Young[/LEFT][/TH] [TH][LEFT]Adult[/LEFT][/TH] [TH][LEFT]Ancient[/LEFT][/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Black[/TD] [TD]CR 2[/TD] [TD]CR 7[/TD] [TD]CR 14[/TD] [TD]CR 21[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Blue[/TD] [TD]CR 3[/TD] [TD]CR 9[/TD] [TD]CR 16[/TD] [TD]CR 23[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Green[/TD] [TD]CR 2[/TD] [TD]CR 8[/TD] [TD]CR 15[/TD] [TD]CR 22[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Red[/TD] [TD]CR 4[/TD] [TD]CR 10[/TD] [TD]CR 17[/TD] [TD]CR 24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]White[/TD] [TD]CR 2[/TD] [TD]CR 6[/TD] [TD]CR 13[/TD] [TD]CR 20[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Brass[/TD] [TD]CR 1[/TD] [TD]CR 6[/TD] [TD]CR 13[/TD] [TD]CR 20[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bronze[/TD] [TD]CR 2[/TD] [TD]CR 8[/TD] [TD]CR 15[/TD] [TD]CR 22[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Copper[/TD] [TD]CR 1[/TD] [TD]CR 7[/TD] [TD]CR 14[/TD] [TD]CR 21[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gold[/TD] [TD]CR 3[/TD] [TD]CR 10[/TD] [TD]CR 17[/TD] [TD]CR 24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Silver[/TD] [TD]CR 2[/TD] [TD]CR 9[/TD] [TD]CR 16[/TD] [TD]CR 23[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] That's interesting. I thought the Chromatic Dragons and Metallic Dragons were similarly powerful in 5E across the age spectrum, but Metallics Wyrmlings are noticeably weaker than Chromatic Wyrmlings. In AD&D of course (and 3E) Metallics were slightly stronger than Chromatics (for an equivalent rank in the dragon hierarchy obviously: an Ancient White is not quite as nasty as an Ancient Brass but still way meaner than a Hatchling), but in 5E a Chromatic Dragon has a definite edge at the Wyrmling stage. I wonder this precociousness is due to the evil dragons having poor parental care, so they've evolved tougher wyrmlings better able to look after themselves? Anyhow, for most of the ages the 5E Dragons have a five step spread of CRs, so maybe we could do the same for the Dragon Warriors? Perhaps use a five step spread of ACs too, for the sake of symmetry? For example, AC 15–19 or 16–20. Although a six step spread would follow the original source material precisely and might make it easier to tweak the Challenge Ratings. Using a five-step CR spread would require us to vary the Hit Dice and DPR of the Dragon Warriors more than the [I]White Dwarf[/I] versions though. There'd be quite a difference between, say, a CR 3 Brass or White Warrior and a CR 7 Gold or Red Warrior. It might be better to use a three point Challenge spread like the 5E Wyrmlings, so if a Brass Warrior is CR 3 a Gold one might be CR 5? Or perhaps four points Challenge spread like that from a CR 1 Brass or Copper Wyrmling to a CR 4 Red Wyrmling? Anyhow, I'm just spitballing ideas here. The original [I]One-Eyed Canyon[/I] adventure features four Dragon Warrior Teeth "donated" by an Adult Gold Dragon. If we do do the full range of standard Dragons, it shouldn't take that much longer than doing one since we'd presumably give them all the same or similar "Warrior powers" and it'd just be some numbers and their dragon's breath-based immunities (and maybe damage type?). It would be tempting to tweak some of their stats to reflect the idiosyncrasies of a particular type of dragon. For example, Black and Gold Dragons have DEX 14, Copper and Green have DEX 12 and the rest of the standard True Dragons have DEX 10. [/QUOTE]
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