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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8871083" data-attributes="member: 57383">Okay, I've finished a first draft of the <a href="https://enworld.org/index.php?posts/8870174" target="_blank">Dragon Warriors Table</a>.I think rather than the Languages Common, Draconic of the generic <a href="https://enworld.org/index.php?posts/8867446" target="_blank">Dragon Warrior</a> I posted it makes more sense that it can understand those tongues (since they're the standard languages known by a 5E dragon) but be unable to speak them. That's similar to the language ability of the Giant Owl and Skeleton mentioned above.I've run some numbers through the CR Calculator and if we give it two or three attacks per round with a Longsword it was pretty easy to fit the Metallic Dragon Warriors into a Challenge Rating 3 to 5 spread with a 1-point AC graduation between each "adjacent rank" of dragon like is used in AD&D.1st EditionBrass AC 2, HD 6-8Copper AC 1, HD 7-9Bronze AC 0, HD 8-10Silver AC -1, HD 9-11Gold AC -2, HD 10-12The power progression of Metallics is the same in 5E. A Brass Ancient Dragon is Challenge 20 and each rank of metal is one CR higher, so Brass/Copper/Bronze/Silver/Gold are CR 20/21/22/23/24, and their AC also progresses in a similar fashion at first with Brass/Copper/Bronze having AC 20/21/22 but then it caps out with the Silver and Gold also having AC 22:Brass Ancient AC 20, 297 hp (17d20+119)[CON 25], Challenge 20Copper Ancient AC 21, 350 hp (20d20+140)[CON 25], Challenge 21Bronze Ancient AC 22, 444 hp (24d20+192)[CON 27], Challenge 22Silver Ancient AC 22, 487 hp (25d20+225)[CON 29], Challenge 23Gold Ancient AC 22, 546 hp (28d20+252)[CON 29], Challenge 24However, I'm having a bit of a problem fitting the Chromatic Dragon Warriors into such a neat progression.In 1E AD&D the Chromatic Dragons have a similar AC progression as Metallics but go half as fast, taking two "ranks" for a 1-point AC increase, but then the Red Dragon jumps three points of AC:White AC 3, HD 5-7Black AC 3, HD 6-8Green AC 2, HD 7-9Blue AC 2, HD 8-10Red AC -1, HD 9-11However, in 5E the Chromatics advance slightly differently, as follows:White Ancient AC 20, 333 hp (18d20+144)[CON 26], Challenge 20Black Ancient AC 22, 367 hp (21d20+147)[CON 25], Challenge 21Green Ancient AC 21, 385 hp (22d20+154)[CON 25], Challenge 22Blue Ancient AC 22, 481 hp (26d20+208)[CON 27], Challenge 23Red Ancient AC 22, 546 hp (28d20+252)[CON 29], Challenge 24Note the AC order goes White/Green/Black-Blue-Red with the 5E Black Dragon having as good an AC as a Red despite being second lowest on the pecking order?So do I have the Chromatic Dragon Warriors ACs zig-zag around like the above, should I use the slow progression with a BIG jump at Red like in 1E, or follow the more even AC progression of the 2E and 3E Chromatic Dragons? If I was to go, say:White Warrior AC 16Black Warrior AC 18Green Warrior AC 17Blue Warrior AC 19Red Warrior AC 20That sort-of follows the 5E progression but seems a bit… unsatisfactory. I also would probably have to have the hit points fluctuate oddly if I want to follow the Challenge 3/3/4/4/5 in the table.If we want the Chromatic Warriors to have inferior AC to the Metallics, it could be something like this:White Warrior AC 16Black Warrior AC 16Green Warrior AC 17Blue Warrior AC 17Red Warrior AC 19That's pretty close to the 1E progression.We'd need to give the Chromatic Warriors a bit more HP than the Metallics OR slightly higher damage output, but that matches up with the Chromatic Wyrmlings having more HD and higher Challenge than the Metallic Wyrmlings.I'm leaning towards using that approach.Another question.In Fifth Edition the Chromatic Dragons add a bit of special damage to their bites (i.e. a Green Dragon does piercing plus poison, a Red Dragon piercing plus fire, and so on) while Metallic Dragons only do piercing with their fangs.So should we add some energy damage to their Longsword attacks, effectively treating them as a flaming/venomous/icy/whatever weapon.I'm also wondering about having the Chromatics do a bit more damage but have fewer attacks (i.e. two sword attacks at CR 4 and 5 instead of the three sword attacks I'm giving the Metallics.)If a Red Dragon Warrior did, say 1d10+7 slashing plus 1d6 fire with its Longsword and could attack twice with Multiattack then it'd still be CR 5 like a Gold Warrior and be a bit more distinctive, substituting increased damage per attack for a greater number of attacks.EDIT: IIRC Ilgatto mainly runs 2E, in which the core dragons are:ChromaticsWhite AC 1 (base), HD 11 (base)Black AC 1 (base), HD 12 (base)Green AC 0 (base), HD 13 (base)Blue AC 0 (base), HD 14 (base)Red AC –3 (base), HD 15 (base)MetallicsBrass AC 0 (base), HD 12 (base)Copper AC 1 (base), HD 13 (base)Bronze AC –2 (base), HD 14 (base)Silver AC –3 (base), HD 15 (base)Gold AC –4 (base), HD 16 (base)Notice they have the 1E one HD difference between ranks but the HD are higher, also the Armour progression of the Chromatics is similar, with White & Black having the same AC, one lower than Blue & Green, and Reds are three higher than them.However, the Metallics have one oddity in 2E. The Copper Dragon has the worst AC among them, not the Brass Dragon like in other editions. Since all the 2E standard Dragons apart from the Copper have base Armour Classes two points better than the AC of their 1E counterparts, I can't help wondering if they just forgot to put a minus sign there and 2E Coppers were meant to have base AC –1 instead of 1. That'd follow the precedent set by 1E.Oh, the base Hit Dice of these 2E Dragons is five more than the average HD of their First Edition version. e.g. Black Dragons are 6-8 HD in 1E, for 7 HD for an average sized specimen; add 5 HD and you get the HD 12 (base) of a 2E Black.</blockquote>

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