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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ilgatto" data-source="post: 8897444" data-attributes="member: 86051">Yup, 18/51-75Hmm..., this is getting confusing.I was arguing for 5E STR 20 because I associate the 1E WD21 cyclops with 1E DDG Greek cylopes and therefore 1E giants. Given the size bump giants got in 2E, I would therefore try to figure out what this would mean for the size and Strength for a 2E conversion of the WD21 cyclops - and then apply it to the 5E conversion. Giving the WD21 cyclops giant-like Strength in 2E would therefore increase the 2E Strength of the cyclops leader beyond that mentioned in WD21.All of this by leaving the 2E ogre and the troll out of the picture for this 2E conversion and......anyway, the point is moot (hmm... is that English?) for I wrote the post without realizing that you'd already given the hypnoclops STR 19 in the <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/5e-converting-monsters-from-white-dwarf-magazine-for-fifth-edition.684031/post-8890557" target="_blank">update</a>, with which I'm now happy because that could allow for 5E STR 20 for the leader if you'd agree to that.By the by: I don't think there's an official 2E monster manual that says that a troll has Strength 18/00.<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr></table>1E MM only says it does 1d4+4 hp damage per claw, which doesn't really suggest Strength 18/00 for many reasons.2E MC1 says the same for claw damage and adds that a troll "attacks with a +5 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 18/91-99.2E MCC1 says the same for claw damage but that a troll "attacks with a +8 damage bonus" when using a weapon, which suggests Strength 20.Edit: Sorry about the table, I found the button when looking for a way to link to the update and, of course, had to press it and now I can no longer remove it.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":ROFLMAO:" title="ROFL    :ROFLMAO:"  data-smilie="18"data-shortname=":ROFLMAO:" />Oh well, at least I seem to have found a way to link to the update without quoting any of it.</blockquote>

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