D&D 5E 5e Flanking - the good, the bad, and the broken?
- Thread starter Blue
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Or if it's worth the bonus.
It's possible this is what you meant--if so, I apologize. It's an interesting idea, and I kinda like it, and I'm not trying to walk on your thunder.
BookTenTiger
He / Him
I changed Flanking to:
When flanking, you score a Critical Hit on a 19 or a 20.
It's been a really fun change!
When flanking, you score a Critical Hit on a 19 or a 20.
It's been a really fun change!
There actually are tumble rules tucked away in the 5e DMG somewhere.
Horwath
Legend
yes, but that is just for moving through creatures area, not avoiding AoO.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
IME it doesn’t cheapen any features.
My experience, though, is also that it encourages using special attacks like shoving and grappling, fighting back to back if possible, and the characters never stand in one place and whack until the whack target drops.
Features/abilities that grant advantage are still very good, allow you to employ other tactics than flanking while getting advantage.
In the campaign where I’m a player, my rogue/Wizard has a familiar, and she gives someone advantage most rounds, I also regularly hide when it’s a good strategy, and taunt and hit and run with booming blade to make them have to choose between chasing me and taking damage or staying in a bad position relative to my allies. I still use Steady Aim sometimes, and I still use stealth and occasionally invisibility to get advantage.
My experience, though, is also that it encourages using special attacks like shoving and grappling, fighting back to back if possible, and the characters never stand in one place and whack until the whack target drops.
Features/abilities that grant advantage are still very good, allow you to employ other tactics than flanking while getting advantage.
In the campaign where I’m a player, my rogue/Wizard has a familiar, and she gives someone advantage most rounds, I also regularly hide when it’s a good strategy, and taunt and hit and run with booming blade to make them have to choose between chasing me and taking damage or staying in a bad position relative to my allies. I still use Steady Aim sometimes, and I still use stealth and occasionally invisibility to get advantage.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
I think flanking is boring, personally. It makes absolute sense. No one can defend fully against opponents on opposite sides. But it’s still boring. Despite my mostly old-school preferences, I do like cinematic games. So when Sly Flourish dropped Cinematic Advantage, I was over the moon. Dungeon Craft did a video on it as well.
13th Age in orign, like so many other good ideas.
I'd prefer a gang up bonus like in Savage Worlds over flanking these days. Just give people a +1 bonus for every additional person over the first is engaged with them. Flanking just creates these weird conga lines.
Really though ganging up on people doesn't really need any bonuses in D&D. It's clearly the optimum strategy to take. If anything, I feel like it's alreay too good. The most effective thing to do is to gang up and finish off one person before moving on to the next and doing the same etc ect. It's not very cinematic. That would be more people squaring off and battling each other. It's both the optimum strategy and the one that leads to the fastest combats and the most deaths (which make things more satisfying, there's nothing more dull then distributing damage around because when you just make hit points go down nothing happens that meaningfully connects the fiction to the game)
5e really needs something like 13th Age's mook rules. Lots of fairly easy to kill monsters that are satisfying to take out. But then you go a bit further and makes sure there is also an incentive to take them out (something 4e especially struggled with. (Such as have them do double damage if there are more mooks on the table then the PCs or have a greatly increased crit range, stuff like that gets the PCs spreading out to take them out quickly). 13th Age also lets mook damage carry over to the next (which at least lets the boring one note wonders like the rogue with its single target damage all the time feel like they can join the wizard and cleric party for a minute).
Really though ganging up on people doesn't really need any bonuses in D&D. It's clearly the optimum strategy to take. If anything, I feel like it's alreay too good. The most effective thing to do is to gang up and finish off one person before moving on to the next and doing the same etc ect. It's not very cinematic. That would be more people squaring off and battling each other. It's both the optimum strategy and the one that leads to the fastest combats and the most deaths (which make things more satisfying, there's nothing more dull then distributing damage around because when you just make hit points go down nothing happens that meaningfully connects the fiction to the game)
5e really needs something like 13th Age's mook rules. Lots of fairly easy to kill monsters that are satisfying to take out. But then you go a bit further and makes sure there is also an incentive to take them out (something 4e especially struggled with. (Such as have them do double damage if there are more mooks on the table then the PCs or have a greatly increased crit range, stuff like that gets the PCs spreading out to take them out quickly). 13th Age also lets mook damage carry over to the next (which at least lets the boring one note wonders like the rogue with its single target damage all the time feel like they can join the wizard and cleric party for a minute).
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