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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7013620" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] A few points on the "Sack" ability: </p><p></p><p>1. It's actually not imposing the blinded condition, it's just preventing you from seeing outside of the sack. For example, if a creature has the natural ability to glow or is wielding a magic item emitting dim light or has any of the umpteen-million ways PCs can generate light, then they could see inside the sack. This could be relevant if there's another creature or object in the sack you want to interact with (e.g. reading a scroll, finding a potion).</p><p></p><p>2. Slashing or piercing weapons should be listed as being able to free one from the sack. Since daggers (a piercing weapon) are sort of a movie trope for doing such things. And it makes sense logically - cloth tears pretty easily once there's a hole in it.</p><p></p><p>3. How many creatures can be "sacked" at one time? My hunch is one (or possibly one Medium or two Small)? Worth mentioning.</p><p></p><p>.....</p><p></p><p>As an observation – and take this with a grain of salt as you and I may have different directions when it comes to our goals in redesigning monsters – I am skeptical of the <em>mechanistic differentiation</em> of monsters that 4e encouraged. A lot of times I found it divorced from any meaningful narrative. IMHO the #1 thing I want monster stats to do is make the players take notice "Yeah! cool! *wince* that ogre, man, remember the time we fought that ogre? And it did that totally ogrish thing? I didn't expect that!"</p><p></p><p>For example, the <strong>Ogre Savage</strong> has an attack that knocks prone or pushes. Totally with you. That's a very ogre thing to do. But a "Smash" that does more damage, can be used approximately 1/encounter, stuns and knocks prone? That's a bit unusual because it implies (a) what the big dumb brute was doing before was not 'Smashing', and (b) it's utilizing the stunned condition in a way that the Monster Manual doesn't so much.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, the <strong>Ogre Skirmisher</strong> having the ability to throw a javelin then rush in and pulverize someone with his club makes sense. It ensures that those stone- or bone-tipped javelins will see play, and those help reinforce that these are creatures with lower-tech "savage" weapons. But adding the ability to charge? That's an ability we see on quadrupeds like the Centaur and other horned/tusked creatures like Unicorns, Minotaurs, Boars, etc. So...even if in the narrative this ogre supposed to be lumbering on all fours like an ape, well, apes don't get charge. So maybe it's wearing a spiked helmet or is a horned ogre? In <em>that</em> case, I'd suggest renaming it to Horned Ogre (or Horned Ogre Skirmisher if you will), which allows a DM to understand the monster - and be able to convey that meaningfully in the narrative to his/her players - in blink of an eye.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I found your <strong>Ogre Warhulk</strong> to be the clearest to convey narratively. It's an especially big armored ogre with a massive pike that it wields wildly like a shish-kebob. More or less. However, in directly converting from 4e you've also picked up some of the bad elements of that system's treatment of monsters – namely that they're principally combat entities. What does an Ogre Warhulk do outside of combat? For example, looking at the <strong>Ogre Collector</strong>, you can easily imagine one of those guys carrying back a peasant or a few pigs in his sack for dinner for the missus/mister and quarrelsome children. So if I were reinterpreting the Ogre Warhulk, I'd look back to the lore of AD&D where ogres were described as <em>"often found serving as mercenaries in the ranks of orc tribes, evil clerics, or gnolls"</em> & the <em>Stonecrown Ogres</em> of Birthright, who organized into mercenary companies and used arbalests to hurl rocks. My design move would be to bill the Ogre Warhulk as an Ogre Mercenary or Mercenary Captain, and maybe give it powers that make it a siege-breaker (e.g. max damage to objects), to command other ogres, etc.</p><p></p><p>They're subtle changes, but I think they go a long way to establishing that these are not just generic <strong>big, dumb brutes</strong>. The same could be said of trolls or ettins or hill giants. The key is figuring out <strong>what kind</strong> of big, dumb brutes they are, and clearly communicating that to DMs so they're empowered to express that narratively to their players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7013620, member: 20323"] [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] A few points on the "Sack" ability: 1. It's actually not imposing the blinded condition, it's just preventing you from seeing outside of the sack. For example, if a creature has the natural ability to glow or is wielding a magic item emitting dim light or has any of the umpteen-million ways PCs can generate light, then they could see inside the sack. This could be relevant if there's another creature or object in the sack you want to interact with (e.g. reading a scroll, finding a potion). 2. Slashing or piercing weapons should be listed as being able to free one from the sack. Since daggers (a piercing weapon) are sort of a movie trope for doing such things. And it makes sense logically - cloth tears pretty easily once there's a hole in it. 3. How many creatures can be "sacked" at one time? My hunch is one (or possibly one Medium or two Small)? Worth mentioning. ..... As an observation – and take this with a grain of salt as you and I may have different directions when it comes to our goals in redesigning monsters – I am skeptical of the [I]mechanistic differentiation[/I] of monsters that 4e encouraged. A lot of times I found it divorced from any meaningful narrative. IMHO the #1 thing I want monster stats to do is make the players take notice "Yeah! cool! *wince* that ogre, man, remember the time we fought that ogre? And it did that totally ogrish thing? I didn't expect that!" For example, the [B]Ogre Savage[/B] has an attack that knocks prone or pushes. Totally with you. That's a very ogre thing to do. But a "Smash" that does more damage, can be used approximately 1/encounter, stuns and knocks prone? That's a bit unusual because it implies (a) what the big dumb brute was doing before was not 'Smashing', and (b) it's utilizing the stunned condition in a way that the Monster Manual doesn't so much. Similarly, the [B]Ogre Skirmisher[/B] having the ability to throw a javelin then rush in and pulverize someone with his club makes sense. It ensures that those stone- or bone-tipped javelins will see play, and those help reinforce that these are creatures with lower-tech "savage" weapons. But adding the ability to charge? That's an ability we see on quadrupeds like the Centaur and other horned/tusked creatures like Unicorns, Minotaurs, Boars, etc. So...even if in the narrative this ogre supposed to be lumbering on all fours like an ape, well, apes don't get charge. So maybe it's wearing a spiked helmet or is a horned ogre? In [I]that[/I] case, I'd suggest renaming it to Horned Ogre (or Horned Ogre Skirmisher if you will), which allows a DM to understand the monster - and be able to convey that meaningfully in the narrative to his/her players - in blink of an eye. Personally, I found your [B]Ogre Warhulk[/B] to be the clearest to convey narratively. It's an especially big armored ogre with a massive pike that it wields wildly like a shish-kebob. More or less. However, in directly converting from 4e you've also picked up some of the bad elements of that system's treatment of monsters – namely that they're principally combat entities. What does an Ogre Warhulk do outside of combat? For example, looking at the [B]Ogre Collector[/B], you can easily imagine one of those guys carrying back a peasant or a few pigs in his sack for dinner for the missus/mister and quarrelsome children. So if I were reinterpreting the Ogre Warhulk, I'd look back to the lore of AD&D where ogres were described as [I]"often found serving as mercenaries in the ranks of orc tribes, evil clerics, or gnolls"[/I] & the [I]Stonecrown Ogres[/I] of Birthright, who organized into mercenary companies and used arbalests to hurl rocks. My design move would be to bill the Ogre Warhulk as an Ogre Mercenary or Mercenary Captain, and maybe give it powers that make it a siege-breaker (e.g. max damage to objects), to command other ogres, etc. They're subtle changes, but I think they go a long way to establishing that these are not just generic [B]big, dumb brutes[/B]. The same could be said of trolls or ettins or hill giants. The key is figuring out [B]what kind[/B] of big, dumb brutes they are, and clearly communicating that to DMs so they're empowered to express that narratively to their players. [/QUOTE]
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