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5e Hardcore: Monster Manual
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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 7526960" data-attributes="member: 83242"><p>There is nothing special about rays with this big T., perhaps your thinking about the WotC version?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed, spell casters are not the best option for this monster. As intended. Although, non-damaging spells can be very effective.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>+9 from belt of giant strength +3 weapon + 6 proficiency average +2 from bless = +20</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your 4 spellcaster group is no different. Regardless, I am not the best optimizer so I am confident that there are other even better options. But I think you are missing the point. Big T is not supposed to be able to be taken out by a party of 4 at 20th level. It should be an impossible challenge. Unfortunately if you are able to blind big T, I think this fight becomes a lot easier than I anticipated. I think if you think a bit more oustide the box of pure damage spells there is definitely a path to defeat this big T (which I am frankly not happy with).</p><p></p><p>In fact I think the paladin might be a better option than a fighter because smite damage isn't reduced and you can have more buff / healing options. So, I think you could probably increase your odds with a paladin in there. Actually I think that there are several better combinations than what I came up with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. The main point for me is that I enjoy making the monsters. In addition it is to provide an upper end that is nearly, if not completely, impossible to defeat. It is to look at and think what the F**k do we have to do to defeat that! Heck, I have a whole thread on epic monsters and 90% of those will make this big T look like a chump! Finally, the higher CR monsters are really for epic characters (using epic boons and/or one of the epic character options on the DMsGuild).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That sounds perfect!</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I just checked and paladin's do similar damage, but not quite as much. They would probably need an extra round all things being equal. However the extra healing they provide might allow them to do just that.</p><p></p><p>Also, 4 wizards all using disintegrate do similar damage. They obviously are more squishy, so they would need to use different tactics and equipment but it appears workable.</p><p></p><p>Point is, there appears to be several methods to build a group that could, in theory, take down this version of T. It would be difficult, you would need extreme equipment, and you probably need some luck. But I think that is what is called for in an end of game epic foe like the big T.</p><p></p><p>EDIT 2: Ugh. I just checked and 4 wizards equipped to maximize spell save DC and using staffs of power are a death trap for this big T. They whittle it down with disintegrate and retributive strike to finish it off. Force damage is its Achilles heal. </p><p></p><p>So at least some combination of: fighter, cleric, wizard, and paladin (all properly equipped) can by RAW theoretically take down this T. That isn't nearly as edge case as you surmised. I might have to check and see if a rogue can help and then we have the 4 major classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 7526960, member: 83242"] There is nothing special about rays with this big T., perhaps your thinking about the WotC version? Agreed, spell casters are not the best option for this monster. As intended. Although, non-damaging spells can be very effective. +9 from belt of giant strength +3 weapon + 6 proficiency average +2 from bless = +20 Your 4 spellcaster group is no different. Regardless, I am not the best optimizer so I am confident that there are other even better options. But I think you are missing the point. Big T is not supposed to be able to be taken out by a party of 4 at 20th level. It should be an impossible challenge. Unfortunately if you are able to blind big T, I think this fight becomes a lot easier than I anticipated. I think if you think a bit more oustide the box of pure damage spells there is definitely a path to defeat this big T (which I am frankly not happy with). In fact I think the paladin might be a better option than a fighter because smite damage isn't reduced and you can have more buff / healing options. So, I think you could probably increase your odds with a paladin in there. Actually I think that there are several better combinations than what I came up with. I disagree. The main point for me is that I enjoy making the monsters. In addition it is to provide an upper end that is nearly, if not completely, impossible to defeat. It is to look at and think what the F**k do we have to do to defeat that! Heck, I have a whole thread on epic monsters and 90% of those will make this big T look like a chump! Finally, the higher CR monsters are really for epic characters (using epic boons and/or one of the epic character options on the DMsGuild). That sounds perfect! EDIT: I just checked and paladin's do similar damage, but not quite as much. They would probably need an extra round all things being equal. However the extra healing they provide might allow them to do just that. Also, 4 wizards all using disintegrate do similar damage. They obviously are more squishy, so they would need to use different tactics and equipment but it appears workable. Point is, there appears to be several methods to build a group that could, in theory, take down this version of T. It would be difficult, you would need extreme equipment, and you probably need some luck. But I think that is what is called for in an end of game epic foe like the big T. EDIT 2: Ugh. I just checked and 4 wizards equipped to maximize spell save DC and using staffs of power are a death trap for this big T. They whittle it down with disintegrate and retributive strike to finish it off. Force damage is its Achilles heal. So at least some combination of: fighter, cleric, wizard, and paladin (all properly equipped) can by RAW theoretically take down this T. That isn't nearly as edge case as you surmised. I might have to check and see if a rogue can help and then we have the 4 major classes. [/QUOTE]
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