5e Immortal Rules

[Quartz]

Should be ready in a few short months.

Just in time for it to need revising for D&D 2024!

 

[Quartz]

"I'm a new immortal with 20 mega-hp. Only mega damage can hurt me. 50 mortal damage from a single source is 1 mega damage."

I'd like to say "divide everything mortal by 10 or 50 and round down" but I don't know if that would really make actual gameplay smoother.

KISS: remember that you only roll when the result is in doubt; most often a mortal just doesn't get to roll against an immortal. Hence all those quests for the McGuffin: only when you have the McGuffin do you get to roll.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Quartz.

Just in time for it to need revising for D&D 2024!

Haha! No need. My immortal rules add on top of your Core Levels, whichever you use. So it will work with any 5e adjacent variant and potentially other systems as well like Pathfinder...although it is being built to easily dovetail with 5e.

 

[dave2008]

Just in time for it to need revising for D&D 2024!

Not likely. UK plans are for it to sit on top of 5e. He intends it to work with 2014 5e, 2024 5e, A5e, Tales of the Valiant, etc.

ninja'd by @Upper_Krust !

 

[Shardstone]

I've done a few outlines and some serious brainstorming but I keep end up inventing a totally new game that is essentially a power sequel to 5E, instead of a way to really play the PHB but in the Immortal tier. Basically, I created a D&D that implemented a number of things from Daggerheart (like the Domain & Vault concept to keep the number of features down) but it basically is way too much work and, like I said, essentially creates totally new game.

I'm looking at some new ideas now that don't involve making high-tier classes and instead focus on boons, artifacts, and an immortal path. No matter how I cut it though, doing a project like this right requires a lot of supplementary materials. You're not only creating player materials, but an entire new game mode of play within which is contained many sub-modes and all of which requires creating new enemies to fight and a lot of guidelines for creating adventures for Epic & Immortal characters. In short, it requires creating a new game even if you focus on using 5E materials RAW with some additions.

That being said, I think its a very interesting niche that D&D, PF2E, Daggerheart, and MCDM fail to capture -- that of the ACTUAL ultra-high level fantasy "superhero" that everyone likes to pretend 5E is about. Stuff like playing larger then life characters doing wild things while having things like resting tie in with the pathos required to make these characters relatable + interesting. But I don't think any version of this idea is really "Immortal 5E" once its completed.

 

[dave2008]

I've done a few outlines and some serious brainstorming but I keep end up inventing a totally new game that is essentially a power sequel to 5E, instead of a way to really play the PHB but in the Immortal tier. Basically, I created a D&D that implemented a number of things from Daggerheart (like the Domain & Vault concept to keep the number of features down) but it basically is way too much work and, like I said, essentially creates totally new game.

I'm looking at some new ideas now that don't involve making high-tier classes and instead focus on boons, artifacts, and an immortal path. No matter how I cut it though, doing a project like this right requires a lot of supplementary materials. You're not only creating player materials, but an entire new game mode of play within which is contained many sub-modes and all of which requires creating new enemies to fight and a lot of guidelines for creating adventures for Epic & Immortal characters. In short, it requires creating a new game even if you focus on using 5E materials RAW with some additions.

That being said, I think its a very interesting niche that D&D, PF2E, Daggerheart, and MCDM fail to capture -- that of the ACTUAL ultra-high level fantasy "superhero" that everyone likes to pretend 5E is about. Stuff like playing larger then life characters doing wild things while having things like resting tie in with the pathos required to make these characters relatable + interesting. But I don't think any version of this idea is really "Immortal 5E" once its completed.

Yes, that is pretty much were I got too. I had a pretty good start on a players guide and monsters, but life intervened.

However, as noted earlier, Upper Krust is coming with a 5e update/ revamp of his 3e Immortals Handbook. That should cover most of the hard work except adventures. But I never use published adventures anyway so that is no skin off my back.

 

[cbwjm]

I've done a few outlines and some serious brainstorming but I keep end up inventing a totally new game that is essentially a power sequel to 5E, instead of a way to really play the PHB but in the Immortal tier. Basically, I created a D&D that implemented a number of things from Daggerheart (like the Domain & Vault concept to keep the number of features down) but it basically is way too much work and, like I said, essentially creates totally new game.

I'm looking at some new ideas now that don't involve making high-tier classes and instead focus on boons, artifacts, and an immortal path. No matter how I cut it though, doing a project like this right requires a lot of supplementary materials. You're not only creating player materials, but an entire new game mode of play within which is contained many sub-modes and all of which requires creating new enemies to fight and a lot of guidelines for creating adventures for Epic & Immortal characters. In short, it requires creating a new game even if you focus on using 5E materials RAW with some additions.

That being said, I think its a very interesting niche that D&D, PF2E, Daggerheart, and MCDM fail to capture -- that of the ACTUAL ultra-high level fantasy "superhero" that everyone likes to pretend 5E is about. Stuff like playing larger then life characters doing wild things while having things like resting tie in with the pathos required to make these characters relatable + interesting. But I don't think any version of this idea is really "Immortal 5E" once its completed.

Do you think that something like the mythic paths from PF1e work? Basically an immortal path that is side by side with your class.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Shardstone!

I've done a few outlines and some serious brainstorming but I keep end up inventing a totally new game that is essentially a power sequel to 5E, instead of a way to really play the PHB but in the Immortal tier. Basically, I created a D&D that implemented a number of things from Daggerheart (like the Domain & Vault concept to keep the number of features down) but it basically is way too much work and, like I said, essentially creates totally new game.

Without going into too much detail, the best way (I might even argue the only way) to handle Immortal tier play is with Templates. You don't want to fall into the 3e trap of extending levels indefinitely. I know a few sources do that up to Level 30, but it's just an epic tier extension rather than anything fundamentally different.

I'm looking at some new ideas now that don't involve making high-tier classes and instead focus on boons, artifacts, and an immortal path.

Agreed. Classes are a bad idea.

No matter how I cut it though, doing a project like this right requires a lot of supplementary materials. You're not only creating player materials, but an entire new game mode of play within which is contained many sub-modes and all of which requires creating new enemies to fight and a lot of guidelines for creating adventures for Epic & Immortal characters. In short, it requires creating a new game even if you focus on using 5E materials RAW with some additions.

Tell me about it!

I started off thinking I could do everything in around 200 pages and have ended up with a 400 page rule book and 400 page epic bestiary. After that I have some epic adventure ideas that should facilitate repeat play.

That being said, I think its a very interesting niche that D&D, PF2E, Daggerheart, and MCDM fail to capture -- that of the ACTUAL ultra-high level fantasy "superhero" that everyone likes to pretend 5E is about. Stuff like playing larger then life characters doing wild things while having things like resting tie in with the pathos required to make these characters relatable + interesting. But I don't think any version of this idea is really "Immortal 5E" once its completed.

Yes it's weird no one has seriously tackled it yet. Though it is very niche. I mean epic play alone only incorporates (at best) 2% of gamers. So Immortal tier would be a subdivision of that. But that's my passion so I'll get it done.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dave2008 amigo.

Yes, that is pretty much were I got too. I had a pretty good start on a players guide and monsters, but life intervened.

The monsters are the easy bit. It's getting the rules balanced that is time consuming and tricky.

However, as noted earlier, Upper Krust is coming with a 5e update/ revamp of his 3e Immortals Handbook.

Though I have a different name for it for these 5e rules. Will reveal that when the new website is done.

That should cover most of the hard work except adventures. But I never use published adventures anyway so that is no skin off my back.

Well I have a few ideas for epic adventures. One is an epic sandbox and the other is a sort of epic 'Challenge' dungeon. I think a lot of epic tier GMs already have their own plans so I am not planning stuff that will change their campaign world - there are enough ideas and monsters in my epic bestiary that can do that already.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey cbwjm!

Do you think that something like the mythic paths from PF1e work? Basically an immortal path that is side by side with your class.

No.

Once you start extending classes you are on a very slippery slope. You can just about get away with it for 10 more levels, but then what have you accomplished? Are Thor and Odin (for example) capped at Level 30 (or mythic 10)? If they are that seems very underwhelming. If they are not then you have failed to deliver an Immortal tier experience.

The epic/immortal tier play should be about removing limitations, not pushing them back a few levels. I don't see the point of having epic be just a few extra levels, when the cool epic anime, games, comics and mythology has potentially gods hitting each other with atomic power, spells blowing up planets like a death star, dragons the size of galaxies and sentient multiverses turning your reality inside out.