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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7710510" data-attributes="member: 996">I didn't care enough to look it up, and didn't own either of those books back then (I certainly heard enough about the Warlock and Warmage, though, and read each of them at some point), but I do care enough that I appreciate the info. And thankyou, again, also. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I seem to remember hearing that the Soul Knife was a just terrible class, mechanically/CharOp-wise, maybe they're trying to evoke that?  ;P Nothing to do with your point, but it's a little odd they're sub-classes are organized into 'Orders,' given that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Of course, class & sub-class names, let along the superfluous class-specific terminology for 'sub-class,' isn't anything that has to connect up to fluff. They were both 'leaders' in 4e.  That seems more like a coincidence than a resemblance. OK, that's a sufficient number of parsecs away from "4e classes 'in the guise of' psionics." Yes, this go-round of 5e's psionics-system/class, the Mystic, has sub-classes that are clear versions of some 4e and 3.5 psionic classes.  And I can see how you can read in a similarity here or there to other 4e classes of the same role (since psionics covered all 4 Roles there's a lot of chances for that), or, especially, to the 4e Monk, since it was, as you point out, also psionic at the time.</blockquote>

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