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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 6987011" data-attributes="member: 6775477">I disagree with much of your premise, but I can solve your problem right now. You are interpreting Stealth, a set of rules deliberately designed to be vague (in order to allow DMs to interpret it as they desire), in a way that makes it bad for your game. All you have to do is simply change your interpretation! Don't call for the check while the creatures are moving into position (actually better if they were already there beforehand), but only when Initiative is called for. Remembering that most groups have light sources (which can be seen for a LONG way off) and a ton of monsters have darkvision, monsters should be able to ambush traveling PCs on a pretty regular basis. If you want to ambush a camping party, remember that only awake characters get checks, and you can decide when to have the attack occur. If you need to roll for the monsters moving into position or if you want to allow the chance to warn the party, only roll once for each group of monsters with the same modifier (this will also speed up play). A for your suggestions:a) this could work, but I would drop the ability to gain normal passive perception. PP is already assuming that you're paying attention the best you can, as long as you can. b) many DMs already do this, except for the part about warning the party. I only allow an Active check against a predetermined DC to warn of an ambush if someone takes the "Watching for Danger" Travel Action. When dealing with a room to room dungeon setup, you have no chance to warn the party in my game.c) I consider this very generousd) I agree with granting more skills to monsters (including the occasional Expertise), but this is WAY too much IME! Remember, an owl isn't trying to hide from humans, but from small animals that are probably less perceptive. The problem with is is that you fall into the trap of 3E skills, where ONLY characters that are trained really have a chance.</blockquote>

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