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<blockquote data-quote="fuindordm" data-source="post: 6988705" data-attributes="member: 5435">Well, if the guards are alert and trying hard to notice things, and the PCs are trying hard to sneak up, shouldn't neither group get advantage? In that case I would just make it stealth vs passive perception with no modes.But your post also touches on an important point--encounter distance.&nbsp; If you're fortifying a location, the defenders want to clear the area for a wide radius so that the minimum encounter distance is much larger. You want your guards to have their first chance to notice intruders at 200 yards away.On the other hand, if you're camping in a hostile forest then the minimum encounter distance is much smaller--maybe only the diamter of the campsite.&nbsp; This is both an advantage and a disadvantage--the PCs' campsite might be less likely to be noticed by hostile creatures, but those that do notice the campsite have total cover up to a much closer point. The type of campsite the party looks for should depend partly on what kind of creatures the ranger says they are likely to encounter, and their own judgement of the tradeoff vs hiding and having lots of advance warning.So I agree with the central point that you are making, which (I think) is that stealth vs perception is really inseparable from terrain and encounter design more generally. Cheers,Ben</blockquote>

[QUOTE="fuindordm, post: 6988705, member: 5435"] Well, if the guards are alert and trying hard to notice things, and the PCs are trying hard to sneak up, shouldn't neither group get advantage? In that case I would just make it stealth vs passive perception with no modes. But your post also touches on an important point--encounter distance. If you're fortifying a location, the defenders want to clear the area for a wide radius so that the minimum encounter distance is much larger. You want your guards to have their first chance to notice intruders at 200 yards away. On the other hand, if you're camping in a hostile forest then the minimum encounter distance is much smaller--maybe only the diamter of the campsite. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage--the PCs' campsite might be less likely to be noticed by hostile creatures, but those that do notice the campsite have total cover up to a much closer point. The type of campsite the party looks for should depend partly on what kind of creatures the ranger says they are likely to encounter, and their own judgement of the tradeoff vs hiding and having lots of advance warning. So I agree with the central point that you are making, which (I think) is that stealth vs perception is really inseparable from terrain and encounter design more generally. Cheers, Ben [/QUOTE]

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