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[5E] Small velociraptor-type creature NEED HELP :)

Sam Stockdale

Villager
I need help with this. I wanted a velociraptor-type creature but not one as big as the Jurassic Park/World one and not as tiny as compsognathus (which I know isn’t related to velociraptor). The eagle from the Monster Manual is a small bird of prey so I figured I could use it as a base… but then I started added stuff and while it looks okay in my head, I was wondering what you folks thought of it. I have no idea of the challenge rating. Any advice, suggestions, etc., would be greatly appreciated.

Raptor
Small beast, unaligned

Armour Class 12 (natural)
Hit Points 3 (1d6)
Speed 40 ft.

STR 6 (–2)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 10 (+0)
INT 2 (–4)
WIS 14 (+2)
CHA 7 (–2)

Skills Perception +4, Stealth +2
Senses passive Perception 14
Languages
Challenge no idea :)

Keen Sight. The raptor has advantage on sight-based Perception checks.
Pounce. If the raptor moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 8 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the raptor can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
Pack Tactics. The raptor has advantage on an attack roll against a target if at least one of the raptor’s allies is within 5 feet of the target and isn’t incapacitated.
Actions

Multiattack. The raptor makes two melee attacks, one with its bite and one with its claws.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4+2 piercing damage.
Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4+2 slashing damage.
 

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Make certain to have a name that doesn't imply flight. I like the pack tactics feature, but on Pounce the bonus action of a bite is confusing since the multi-attack already gives a bite attack.

What role would these fill in your game?
 

Sam Stockdale

Villager
Make certain to have a name that doesn't imply flight. I like the pack tactics feature, but on Pounce the bonus action of a bite is confusing since the multi-attack already gives a bite attack.

What role would these fill in your game?

What is their role? That's a good question. Well, the adventurers will be venturing into the Lizard Marsh (in the Forgotten Realms), an area that contains dinosaurs. But they'll be doing this at a lowest level so I wanted some dinosaurs that would occupy the same role as wolves. As to the name implying flight... yeah, I forgot that raptor is actually applied to birds of prey, so I guess one of the velociraptorae names would be better. The pounce action I got from the big cats in the Monster Manual... I was thinking about when the velociraptors attack in Jurassic Park/World.
 

I would be tempted to make the bite a 1d3+2 just because it will often show up twice a round. I may jack this for use in my campaign. I've got a place where a large, fast lizard-like thing would make sense as a canine replacement.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I need help with this. I wanted a velociraptor-type creature but not one as big as the Jurassic Park/World one and not as tiny as compsognathus (which I know isn’t related to velociraptor). The eagle from the Monster Manual is a small bird of prey so I figured I could use it as a base… but then I started added stuff and while it looks okay in my head, I was wondering what you folks thought of it. I have no idea of the challenge rating. Any advice, suggestions, etc., would be greatly appreciated.

So are you aiming for a "velociraptor" that's actually as big as a Velociraptor mongoliensis or one that's the size of an eagle?

A typical eagle is around 2 or 3 kg (~5-6 pounds) and 60 to 70 cm long. The largest eagles might weigh 6+ kg (13+ pounds)* and approach a meter long. It's impossible to say for sure how much an extinct animal weighed in life, but a Velociraptor mongoliensis is about 6 feet long and I'd guess would weigh about 10 to 15 kg - five times more than a typical eagle.

*It's worth mentioning that eagles in zoos sometimes get significantly heftier than wild ones typically do. Captive animals often get overweight from having plenty of food and not much exercise.

The stats look fine for an "eagle sized" Dromeosaur, except I don't think such a creature's Pounce attack should have a knock down effect - would you think an average person would be knocked over by being jumped on by something the size of a chicken or small terrier?

If you're aiming for a "6 foot" Dromeosaur I'd give it another Hit Dice and tweak its Strength up a notch or two to around Str 8 or Str 10. That'd put those stats between those of an Eagle and those of a Wolf, which feels about right to me.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
What is their role? That's a good question. Well, the adventurers will be venturing into the Lizard Marsh (in the Forgotten Realms), an area that contains dinosaurs. But they'll be doing this at a lowest level so I wanted some dinosaurs that would occupy the same role as wolves. As to the name implying flight... yeah, I forgot that raptor is actually applied to birds of prey, so I guess one of the velociraptorae names would be better. The pounce action I got from the big cats in the Monster Manual... I was thinking about when the velociraptors attack in Jurassic Park/World.

Bear in mind the adventurers might not encounter a Latin-speaking paleontologist to properly identify their opponents...

You could always give them a vernacular name used by the locals - "Brigand Lizard", "Ripper" or anything else you fancy.
 

Sam Stockdale

Villager
So are you aiming for a "velociraptor" that's actually as big as a Velociraptor mongoliensis or one that's the size of an eagle?

A typical eagle is around 2 or 3 kg (~5-6 pounds) and 60 to 70 cm long. The largest eagles might weigh 6+ kg (13+ pounds)* and approach a meter long. It's impossible to say for sure how much an extinct animal weighed in life, but a Velociraptor mongoliensis is about 6 feet long and I'd guess would weigh about 10 to 15 kg - five times more than a typical eagle.

*It's worth mentioning that eagles in zoos sometimes get significantly heftier than wild ones typically do. Captive animals often get overweight from having plenty of food and not much exercise.

The stats look fine for an "eagle sized" Dromeosaur, except I don't think such a creature's Pounce attack should have a knock down effect - would you think an average person would be knocked over by being jumped on by something the size of a chicken or small terrier?

If you're aiming for a "6 foot" Dromeosaur I'd give it another Hit Dice and tweak its Strength up a notch or two to around Str 8 or Str 10. That'd put those stats between those of an Eagle and those of a Wolf, which feels about right to me.

They could both probably fill a role in a Lost World type game, couldn't they? I see what you mean about the Pounce for a smaller version of the creature... no, that wouldn't happen, would it? Hehe!
 

Sam Stockdale

Villager
Bear in mind the adventurers might not encounter a Latin-speaking paleontologist to properly identify their opponents...

You could always give them a vernacular name used by the locals - "Brigand Lizard", "Ripper" or anything else you fancy.

That's cool, but I very rarely tell my players the name of what they're facing... I just describe the creature. It goes toward preventing them looking the creature up in the Monster Manual. Preserves the mystery. Hehe!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
They could both probably fill a role in a Lost World type game, couldn't they? I see what you mean about the Pounce for a smaller version of the creature... no, that wouldn't happen, would it? Hehe!

Sure you can use both. They're well within the known size range of real-world Dromeosaurs, if that means anything.

In a D&D universe there might be kaiju-sized "Velociraptors" running about.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
That's cool, but I very rarely tell my players the name of what they're facing... I just describe the creature. It goes toward preventing them looking the creature up in the Monster Manual. Preserves the mystery. Hehe!

Yes, that's what I normally do for monsters that aren't common knowledge.

Referring them by a "local name" doesn't violate that principle, thought, since it's not going to be the one in the Monster Manual.
 


I was a bit surprised there wasn't a veloceraptor-type dinosaur in the MM; you would think it would be almost mandatory to include it in a post-Jurassic Park world. I'm hoping to see it in the inevitable MM2, along with some of the other missing dinosaur archetypes (archosaur archetypes?) such as a sauropod, a stegosaur (although right now you could just modify the ankylosaurus in the MM) and a larger pterosaur like quetzalcoatlus.

(I've been mulling over an idea of creating a "100 monsters I would like to see in a MM2" list...)
 

ccooke

Adventurer
Some thoughts...

1) You've included stealth as a skill, but not given them proficiency in it, so the skill is the usual +2 for a dex skill. It's more common to leave that out.
2) Challenge rating, as you've listed it. For this, I'm assuming that you intended the multiattack and pounce to stack, so that the raptor can get three attacks on a round when it pounces.

CR is the average of defensive and offensive CR. So, to calculate the defensive CR... 3hp and AC12 are solidly in the CR0 range. No features affect this, so its defensive CR is zero.
Offensive... Well, given the pounce it's going to have potentially three attacks on the first round, then two on subsequent. The DMG advises to take the average over the first three rounds, so:
Each attack is 1d4+2, for an average of 4. The first round it does 12, the two subsequent 8, for a total of 28 points over three rounds or 9.3 per round. That puts the offensive CR as a high CR½ or a low CR1. Now we look at the attack bonus - 4 is one point higher than the +3 for a CR1 creature, and pack tactics is accounted for by adding one to the effective attack bonus. That means the effective attack bonus is +5, two points higher than the expected bonus for a CR½ or CR1 creature. The guidelines say this would increase the CR by one. That leaves us with an offensive CR of a strong 1 or a weak 2. I think on balance that this is a strong offensive CR of 1, since the DC on the pounce ability is low and therefore the chance of dealing the higher damage is lessened.

Overall CR is 0 + 1 / 2, or a nice CR½. Looking at other CR½ creatures, I think that's pretty reasonable - these will go down quickly, but if you're attacked by a pack of them it could get nasty.

3) I like this creature. I might have to steal it :)

Does that help?
 



If you want them to fill the role of a wolf, why not just re-skin a wolf and make your other changes. I'd leave out the multiattack, though. CR should be about the same as the wolf.

Would lizardfolk train these as hunting dogs?
 

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