D&D 4E 5e What Skill(s) would you use for the 4e equivalent of Dungeoneering?

[Fire Brand]

What Skill(s) check would DM’s out there call for in underground exploration since dungeon crawling is a huge part of the game (not always but often)?

1) The reference definition I use is in 4e PHB1 p184 Dungeoneering Knowledge (WIS) “To remember a useful bit of knowledge about an underground environment or to recognize an underground hazard or clue.” (I immediately think of a dwarf’s traits).

2) In 5e it seems like it’s the DM’s situational call because the rules mention no clear cut skill(s) for underground “Dungeoneering”

3) If no skill fits then do DM’s call for a general WIS check using the base untrained WIS modifer?

4) The 5e PHB p178 Wisdom options that come close are below. Perhaps it flat out depends on the situation. Whereas Nature can be more general?

Perception. Your Wisdom (Perception) check lets you spot, hear, or otherwise detect the presence of something. It measures your general awareness of your surroundings and the keenness of your senses.

For example, you might try to hear a conversation through a closed door, eavesdrop under an open window, or hear monsters moving stealthily in the forest. Or you might try to spot things that are obscured or easy to miss, whether they are orcs lying in ambush on a road, thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley, or candlelight under a closed secret door.

Survival. The DM might ask you to make a Wisdom (Survival) check to follow tracks, hunt wild game, guide your group through frozen wastelands, identify signs that owlbears live nearby, predict the weather, or avoid quicksand and other natural hazards.

Other Wisdom Checks. The DM might call for a Wisdom check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:
• Get a gut feeling about what course of action to follow
• Discern whether a seemingly dead or living creature is undead

5) 5e Nature is INT, so I think this skill could be an element of Dungeoneering:

Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.

6) Compare this to it seems like a catch-all 5e PHB p178 Nature. Your Intelligence (Nature) check measures your ability to recall lore about terrain, plants and animals, the weather, and natural cycles.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Afrodyte]

What Skill(s) check would DM’s out there call for in underground exploration since dungeon crawling is a huge part of the game (not always but often)?

1) The reference definition I use is in 4e PHB1 p184 Dungeoneering Knowledge (WIS) “To remember a useful bit of knowledge about an underground environment or to recognize an underground hazard or clue.” (I immediately think of a dwarf’s traits).

2) In 5e it seems like it’s the DM’s situational call because the rules mention no clear cut skill(s) for underground “Dungeoneering”

3) If no skill fits then do DM’s call for a general WIS check using the base untrained WIS modifer?

4) The 5e PHB p178 Wisdom options that come close are below. Perhaps it flat out depends on the situation. Whereas Nature can be more general?

Perception. Your Wisdom (Perception) check lets you spot, hear, or otherwise detect the presence of something. It measures your general awareness of your surroundings and the keenness of your senses.

For example, you might try to hear a conversation through a closed door, eavesdrop under an open window, or hear monsters moving stealthily in the forest. Or you might try to spot things that are obscured or easy to miss, whether they are orcs lying in ambush on a road, thugs hiding in the shadows of an alley, or candlelight under a closed secret door.

Survival. The DM might ask you to make a Wisdom (Survival) check to follow tracks, hunt wild game, guide your group through frozen wastelands, identify signs that owlbears live nearby, predict the weather, or avoid quicksand and other natural hazards.

Other Wisdom Checks. The DM might call for a Wisdom check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:
• Get a gut feeling about what course of action to follow
• Discern whether a seemingly dead or living creature is undead

5) 5e Nature is INT, so I think this skill could be an element of Dungeoneering:

Investigation. When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.

6) Compare this to it seems like a catch-all 5e PHB p178 Nature. Your Intelligence (Nature) check measures your ability to recall lore about terrain, plants and animals, the weather, and natural cycles.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Personally, I'd ask for a Wisdom (Survival) check. I think of a dungeon as no different from a forest, a desert, or the ocean.

For the more abstract stuff, like things you've read about specific creatures, I can go with Intelligence (Arcana), Intelligence (Nature), or Intelligence (Religion) instead.

But that's just me.

 

[Rhenny]

Personally, I'd ask for a Wisdom (Survival) check. I think of a dungeon as no different from a forest, a desert, or the ocean.

For the more abstract stuff, like things you've read about specific creatures, I can go with Intelligence (Arcana), Intelligence (Nature), or Intelligence (Religion) instead.

But that's just me.

I agree. Wisdom (survival) for navigation, tracking, etc. Intelligence (nature) for knowledge of creatures, fungus, natural phenomenon, etc.

 

[edhel]

What Skill(s) check would DM’s out there call for in underground exploration since dungeon crawling is a huge part of the game (not always but often)?

--

Thoughts? Thanks!

If you feel the Dungeoneering skill would serve your campaign, just add it to the skill list.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You can come at it from the other direction. A player asks if they know anything about the fungi in a dungeon, so you call for an INT check, and rule as to whether any of their proficiencies apply. Use the stats as the overview guide for what kind of check, and just rule on the proficiencies.

 

[Fire Brand]

Thanks all! All those suggestions are along the lines I was thinking. It's good to hear what more experienced players think and verify my thoughts including players initiating the skill check inquiry. Especially if one PC is more skilled in a certain area than others and they 'sense' something and need to ask the DM if they can use that skill to do whatever needs to be done. Even if one of the other PC's brings it up but they want the higher skilled PC go for the 'check' imho. Of course depending on the situation. Not to cheat. But to optimize success in an opportunity. It could start some role-playing between the PC's.

Fwiw here's how WotC replied when asked the same Q:

"Thank you for contacting Wizards Customer Service. For underground environment it would be up to the DM for decide which skill to use. I can be nature for the type of rocks, perception to see what is wrong, or history to know who made the caves for some examples.

You are correct it is not as exact as 4th Edition were some skills were exactly used for certain things. It also lets the players think and persuade the GM that they can roll a certain skill to find some information. This makes the game more Role Playing."

 

[the Jester]

For me, it would depend on what you're trying to do. I'd adjudicate based on what the pc was attempting to do and what existing skill was most appropriate for doing that task.

Possibilities include Athletics or Acrobatics (for physical, exploration-related tasks), Investigation, Nature and Perception.

 

[pedro2112]

This also presents some more situations that the Dwarven "Stonecunning" double proficiency bonus might apply.

 

[Fire Brand]

This also presents some more situations that the Dwarven "Stonecunning" double proficiency bonus might apply.

Nice. Good call. I automatically think of Dwarf racial traits when thinking underground exploration. Here’s the 5e PHB text for those who want to know:

Stonecunning. Whenever you make an Intelligence
(History) check related to the origin of stonework, you
are considered proficient in the History skill and add
double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of
your normal proficiency bonus.

Along those lines, Drow traits aren’t skill checks per se but they can contribute to or aid ‘Dungeoneering’ exploration type of skill checks for other PC’s so basically they can locate or help PC’s see details underground:

Superior Darkvision. Your darkvision has a radius of 120 feet.

Drow Magic. You know the dancing lights cantrip.
(When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the faerie fire
spell once per day. When you reach 5th level, you can
also cast the darkness spell once per day. Charisma is
your spellcasting ability for these spells.)

Dancing Lights
You create up to four torch-sized lights within range,
making them appear as torches, lanterns, or glowing
orbs that hover in the air for the duration. You can
also combine the four lights into one glowing vaguely
humanoid form of Medium size. Whichever form you
choose, each light sheds dim light in a 10-foot radius.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can move the
lights up to 60 feet to a new spot within range. A light
must be within 20 feet of another light created by this
spell, and a light winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.