Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7523936" data-attributes="member: 15700">No, people are saying that because it's true, and you seem to be militantly doubling down on your assumptions.  For example, you're comparing AC straight across when you're completely forgetting the difference in how hard it is to hit the same AC in each edition.In 1e, your 5th level cleric has a base +2 to hit, thieves a +1, magic users a +0, and fighters a +4.  All PCs in 5e have a +3 prof bonus.  The purple worm in 1e has the equivalent of a +12, whereas in 5e it's +9.In 1e, most fighter type PCs will only have a stat bonus of +1 to hit, thieves maybe a +2 with ranged.  No other class will get a bonus to hit.  In 5e, every class is going to be at +3 by 5th level.So that right there puts us at:1e:fighter: +5 to hitthief: +3clerics: +2magic users: +0PW: +125e: everyone: +6PW: +9I'll spare the exact math, because I'm hoping you can clearly see that comparing an AC14 to AC18 straight across is a bad analysis because while AC18 is higher, the 5e PC is hitting it way more easier than a 1e PC would.  The reverse is also true, with the 1e PW hitting the 1e PCs way more easily than the 5e version does with 5e PCs.Comparing HP straight across is equally flawed for the exact same reason.  Oh, and I used 6th level because the level range of the module was 5-7.  But sure, let's use your 5th level.Additionally, even if you don't factor in the differences it was to hit, you're also glaring over a huge omission with HP.  In 1e, the PW can do up to 24 points of damage.  The average HP of a 5th level PC in 1e is:MU: 13Thieves: 18Clerics: 23Fighters: 33 (assuming a Con bonus)That means the 1e PW can one shot any PC who isn't a fighter.  In 5e, the PW can do up to 33 points  In 5e, the average PC has:D6 HD: 30 hpD8 HD: 40 hpD10 HD: 39 HP (the types usually have a con bonus)D12 HD: 65 HP (at least 1 con bonus, usually more)So comparing 1e to 5e, the PW has the ability to one shot kill a lot  more of the PCs than they can in 5e.  It gets even more scary when you realize that in 1e, there is no saving throw to avoid being swallowed.  if the PW hits by 4 or more (or a natural 20), the target is swallowed.  When you consider the PW in 1e has a massive +12 to hit, and most 1e PCs at 5th level still have crappy ACs (poor MU and thieves are going to be at the equivalent AC of 10-14), then 1e PCs are going to get swallowed with much greater frequency.Yes it is, as explained by lowkey13.  Not sure why you would ignore this when it very much is a factor.  Is not the desert a wide open area?  So again, save or die (1e) vs take extra damage (5e).  Especially brutal when you factor that 5th level PCs in 1e had horrible saves. So yeah, that's why people are continuing to say 1e is more deadly.  Honestly, at this point I'm wondering if you really did play the game  (for the record, I played 1e as my preferred edition from 1981 to 2012 when 5e came out, playing that instead of 3e or 4e), so it's not ancient history to me.</blockquote>

Verification