Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
5th level characters vs a purple worm
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dessert Nomad" data-source="post: 7525528" data-attributes="member: 6976536"><p>This is just hilarious. As you pointed out, "To Hit A.C. 0" actually originated on P196 of the 1st edition DMG in Appendex E: "Alphabetical Recapitulation of Monsters (With Experience Point Values)", it was not created in 2nd edition. People with mild intelligence realized that, other than the '6 20s' part of the chart and above, recording "To Hit A.C. 0" and adding the AC produced the exact same result as looking up the result on the table, but without the time sink of locating or copying the table, then looking up a value. And yes, AD&D players really did abbreviate "To Hit A.C. 0" to THAC0 before 2nd edition came out. You're asserting that I must not have played 1e because I used a shortcut commonly used when playing 1E, and then that since I used a shortcut that produces the same result as the table lookup, I must not have played out the fight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The criticism that I didn't look up the size of a camel is pretty bizarre; I was actually just following the suggestion from earlier in the thread of having the worm attack the party's mounts. But it's also factually incorrect criticizm, as the worm most certainly can swallow a camel. The worm can swallow creatures up to 8' tall and 6' wide, with no limit on the length. Camels are roughly 6' high and narrower than they are tall, so are quite easily swallowable by a 1e purple worm, even though I didn't actually check. So I don't think it's actually unreasonable for the worm to go after mounts at the start of the attack, as they are tasty morsels that don't injure it and that it can easily swallow.</p><p></p><p>As far as targeting, it's really simple: the rules I set for the worm's attacks were that it would first attack whoever did the most damage to it on the previous round, unless that person wasn't a valid target (swallowed or levitating), in which case it would attack the one who did the second most damage (then third, etc.). I expected that it would result in the worm trying to kill the party members that hurt it worst and force the ranged attackers into melee instead of letting them sit at their preferred range, while not requiring any abjudication from me once the fight started. This seems to me a perfectly reasonable set of behaviors for an INT 1 animal. The fact that person in the first round who did the most damage was at range was just a result of the die rolls, it's not unreasonable that the worm bypassed people who were missing it to try to kill the person who hurt it the most. </p><p></p><p>Also note that if I ran it the other way, you'd probably claim that I ran the worm badly by having it ignore the more damaging attackers and that if I ran it as I should, I wouldn't just let them make their optimal attacks without retaliation or the risk of getting stuck in melee.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's funny that people were telling me that I was a fool for thinking that a party of characters in the 1E module even stood a chance at fighting the worm. One person stated that his party would run immediately upon seeing a worm, another that if a party didn't run they deserve a TPK to teach them a lesson, and others sneered at me for daring to believe that the encounter was anything less than horribly deadly. You personally accused me of not having actually played 1e for thinking the PCs would even have a chance of taking down the worm. And now that I did run a fight where the 'facing a TPK' players got a chance to cast buff spells, then get the first attack against the worm, I'm making it too easy on the worm, and should have given it a round of surprise attacks on the players and assumed they were all unmounted. </p><p></p><p>First the players were fools if they didn't run IMMEDIATELY for safety upon seeing the worm because in 1E it was so mind-bogglingly scary, and that the way to run it is to just have the worm attack some of the non-PC stuff in the party. Now if the PC get the jump on the worm it's a completely lopsided encounter that of course they would win, and is completely unfair to the worm, and of course it's going to lose if it doesn't get surprise on the party. I think it's pretty telling that when some actual numbers hit the thread, the worm dropped from an iconic, nigh-unbeatable force of nature to such a fragile beast that it can't win without surprise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dessert Nomad, post: 7525528, member: 6976536"] This is just hilarious. As you pointed out, "To Hit A.C. 0" actually originated on P196 of the 1st edition DMG in Appendex E: "Alphabetical Recapitulation of Monsters (With Experience Point Values)", it was not created in 2nd edition. People with mild intelligence realized that, other than the '6 20s' part of the chart and above, recording "To Hit A.C. 0" and adding the AC produced the exact same result as looking up the result on the table, but without the time sink of locating or copying the table, then looking up a value. And yes, AD&D players really did abbreviate "To Hit A.C. 0" to THAC0 before 2nd edition came out. You're asserting that I must not have played 1e because I used a shortcut commonly used when playing 1E, and then that since I used a shortcut that produces the same result as the table lookup, I must not have played out the fight. The criticism that I didn't look up the size of a camel is pretty bizarre; I was actually just following the suggestion from earlier in the thread of having the worm attack the party's mounts. But it's also factually incorrect criticizm, as the worm most certainly can swallow a camel. The worm can swallow creatures up to 8' tall and 6' wide, with no limit on the length. Camels are roughly 6' high and narrower than they are tall, so are quite easily swallowable by a 1e purple worm, even though I didn't actually check. So I don't think it's actually unreasonable for the worm to go after mounts at the start of the attack, as they are tasty morsels that don't injure it and that it can easily swallow. As far as targeting, it's really simple: the rules I set for the worm's attacks were that it would first attack whoever did the most damage to it on the previous round, unless that person wasn't a valid target (swallowed or levitating), in which case it would attack the one who did the second most damage (then third, etc.). I expected that it would result in the worm trying to kill the party members that hurt it worst and force the ranged attackers into melee instead of letting them sit at their preferred range, while not requiring any abjudication from me once the fight started. This seems to me a perfectly reasonable set of behaviors for an INT 1 animal. The fact that person in the first round who did the most damage was at range was just a result of the die rolls, it's not unreasonable that the worm bypassed people who were missing it to try to kill the person who hurt it the most. Also note that if I ran it the other way, you'd probably claim that I ran the worm badly by having it ignore the more damaging attackers and that if I ran it as I should, I wouldn't just let them make their optimal attacks without retaliation or the risk of getting stuck in melee. It's funny that people were telling me that I was a fool for thinking that a party of characters in the 1E module even stood a chance at fighting the worm. One person stated that his party would run immediately upon seeing a worm, another that if a party didn't run they deserve a TPK to teach them a lesson, and others sneered at me for daring to believe that the encounter was anything less than horribly deadly. You personally accused me of not having actually played 1e for thinking the PCs would even have a chance of taking down the worm. And now that I did run a fight where the 'facing a TPK' players got a chance to cast buff spells, then get the first attack against the worm, I'm making it too easy on the worm, and should have given it a round of surprise attacks on the players and assumed they were all unmounted. First the players were fools if they didn't run IMMEDIATELY for safety upon seeing the worm because in 1E it was so mind-bogglingly scary, and that the way to run it is to just have the worm attack some of the non-PC stuff in the party. Now if the PC get the jump on the worm it's a completely lopsided encounter that of course they would win, and is completely unfair to the worm, and of course it's going to lose if it doesn't get surprise on the party. I think it's pretty telling that when some actual numbers hit the thread, the worm dropped from an iconic, nigh-unbeatable force of nature to such a fragile beast that it can't win without surprise. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
5th level characters vs a purple worm
Top