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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7855061" data-attributes="member: 4348">I've been a hardcore wargamer.  I'm typically a board wargamer (boards, chits, etc) rather than a miniatures wargamer.Most wargamers of my class did not play 4e (though I did), but most of them that are the hardcores and the old fogies don't play D&D period.Of the miniatures wargamers many played 4e.  4e was FAR closer to the original roots of OD&D wargaming from a wargamer's perspective than most other games that have come since AD&D.  The ONLY one that I'd say was closer is probably 3.5 in regards to how rules and such workIn fact, 3.5 would probably be the only one that I could translate into a skirmish type miniatures wargame overall that would appeal to the general miniatures wargamer.4e on the otherhand is overblow with how much people talk about videogames and such.  The FIRST TIME I READ through 3e, do you know what I thought...they are trying to recreate Diablo 2.  It had far MORE items to me in regards to the current video games of the time in it's appeal with feats such as whirlwind (direct rip off of a Diablo power) and feat trees.4e had some WoW ideas thrown in, but in other ways (fixed XP table for one, more XP to actually advance than the quick advancement table of 3e and 3.5) was a throw back to some of the more traditional elements of D&D.  However, the problem with 4e that I see many have is not the core of the system (which is actually essentially a simplified form of 3e and 3.5) but the powers system that is attached to it and runs most of the show in combat.  I feel it was more the powers systems and the portrayal of 4e as well as marketing that put a bad taste for it in many gamer's mouths.  It took the excesses of 3.5 too far for a LOT of gamers and rather than tamper down on restrictions and special powers, ramped it up far past 11.  Everything in combat became situational and players did not feel as if they had the freedom to act as they wanted.In this I see a 5e that has gone the opposite direction inspiring a more free form approach to the rules (though there are still plenty of those who want to play it as specific and restricted as possible) while tamping down on the powers and specific abilities and moves that restrict others from doing similar things.Back on subject.   4e didn't really play like a wargame, even a board and chits wargame.  However, to me it did feel like it played like a BOARD GAME in combat encounters...not a wargame boardgame, but more like a boardgame similar to things such as Talisman, or Descent, or Warhammer quest or Heroquest.  That isn't a wargame per se, but more a miniatures boardgame.</blockquote>

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