D&D 5E 9th level NPC wizard, what is your "Minimum Personal Security" suite?

[Stalker0]

adding in scrolls makes the answer SO MUCH more complicated.

Using the magic tables I noted above: Feel free to assume one 2nd level scroll and one 3rd level scroll, that's a reasonable assumption for a wizard like this based on the magic hoard tables.

 

[Lyxen]

That's literally what I said. That's the first thing I said.

Not exactly, see here. This equivalency was only in response to my first challenge on the balance of these items.

It's also, as I said, the same AC as casting mage armor. So it's a magic item that turns a level 1 spell that lasts 8 hours without concentration into an at-will effect.

And for me, that is a powerful effect, not an uncommon magic item.

The Warlock can get the same thing with an invocation.

And invocations are really powerful effects, some of which cannot be duplicated.

Or, it's comparable to magical medium armor, like mithral half plate. The proficiency point is completely irrelevant.

First no, it's not irrelevant at all, it's still a bonus. And second no, it's not at all equivalent to mithral half-plate (which is a fairly powerful armor in its own right), as contrary to medium armor (which lots of classes can't use, btw), because it allows your full DEX bonus to AC, not limiting it to +2.

Don't compare it to a half-plate, it's a bad comparison as you are totally ignoring the basic principle of bounded accuracy, the only reasonable comparison is to a legendary armor that you certainly should not be able to procure, and even less to procure easily.

Also, a +1 shield is uncommon.

And it's still only +1, and limited to those able to use a shield, and it requires one hand, which casters need in general.

All of which is beside the more important point, which is...okay? Don't use it then?

I would advise not to use them in your campaigns, they are unbalanced, especially the best one which is way too powerful in a system with bounded accuracy.

 

[HammerMan]

Using the magic tables I noted above: Feel free to assume one 2nd level scroll and one 3rd level scroll, that's a reasonable assumption for a wizard like this based on the magic hoard tables.

Okay quick on the fly modifications... I will just take mage armor and alarm scrolls.... as long as I have a round to use the mage armor...

13 preped spells, what do I use for combat

1st shield
2nd (NONE)
3rd Fireball COunter Spell
4th Phantasmal killer (1 of banish, blight, or evard black tentacles depending on what you expect)
5th Enervation

having atleast 1 damaging cantrip with the above is good

that is half... 7 out of 13 if I really wanted to slim down I could drop both 4th level spells from my prep (use those slots for counter spell or fireball)
of those 7 mage armor, shield, and counter spell are defense and firball the 2 4th level are both offensive, and Enervation is both offense and self healing.

 

[Simonb1]

What about the See Invisible spell?

 

[Stalker0]

So trying my own hand at this, in terms of what I'm thinking:

1) Shield - A gimme, its just too good not to.
2) Magic Missile - I feel like MM is just a nice solid spell that highly flexible. I can scale it up in higher level slots for punch, force damage works against basically everything, auto hits in case of high AC targets....its just a good workhorse kind of spell. I always laugh because in a world of mostly 1st level people.... magic missile is the real power word kill.
3) Dimension Door - If I'm going for a minimum suite, it seems one of the best ideas would be just to just get out of dodge and go to a panic room or some other safe place.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not exactly, see here. This equivalency was only in response to my first challenge on the balance of these items.



And for me, that is a powerful effect, not an uncommon magic item.



And invocations are really powerful effects, some of which cannot be duplicated.



First no, it's not irrelevant at all, it's still a bonus. And second no, it's not at all equivalent to mithral half-plate (which is a fairly powerful armor in its own right), as contrary to medium armor (which lots of classes can't use, btw), because it allows your full DEX bonus to AC, not limiting it to +2.

Don't compare it to a half-plate, it's a bad comparison as you are totally ignoring the basic principle of bounded accuracy, the only reasonable comparison is to a legendary armor that you certainly should not be able to procure, and even less to procure easily.



And it's still only +1, and limited to those able to use a shield, and it requires one hand, which casters need in general.



I would advise not to use them in your campaigns, they are unbalanced, especially the best one which is way too powerful in a system with bounded accuracy.

Lol no.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not exactly, see here. This equivalency was only in response to my first challenge on the balance of these items.

If you’re going to be pedantic, at least pay attention to what you’re “correcting”.

The first thing I said in the post you quoted. Obviously.

And for me, that is a powerful effect, not an uncommon magic item.

Okay.

First no, it's not irrelevant at all, it's still a bonus.

An inconsequential bonus, and thus irrelevant.

And second no, it's not at all equivalent to mithral half-plate (which is a fairly powerful armor in its own right), as contrary to medium armor (which lots of classes can't use, btw), because it allows your full DEX bonus to AC, not limiting it to +2.

It is, though. The actual AC numbers will be the same.

Don't compare it to a half-plate

I’ll do what I want, thanks.

, it's a bad comparison as you are totally ignoring the basic principle of bounded accuracy, the only reasonable comparison is to a legendary armor that you certainly should not be able to procure, and even less to procure easily.

First, show me where I said the improved robes are easy to procure.

Second, your hesitancy to give out magic items is a you thing, not some objectively correct way to run the game.

And it's still only +1, and limited to those able to use a shield, and it requires one hand, which casters need in general.

They need one hand, generally, and not all DMs even enforce that. The point is, though, they aren’t getting an AC that a rogue couldn’t get.

I would advise not to use them in your campaigns, they are unbalanced, especially the best one which is way too powerful in a system with bounded accuracy.

I would advise you to not try to talk down to people like you know better than others how they should run their games.

Unlike you, I’ve seen these items in play. They’re fine.

 

[Lyxen]

If you’re going to be pedantic, at least pay attention to what you’re “correcting”.

The first thing I said in the post you quoted. Obviously.

So, therefore, if you are trying to be pedantic, not "That's the first thing I said". Q.E.D.

An inconsequential bonus, and thus irrelevant.

It's only inconsequential when you don't care about the armor class balance between classes, which is your case as demonstrated below, but also by the fact that you basically make light armor proficiency totally useless. And that is wrong in itself.

It is, though. The actual AC numbers will be the same.

Not at all for all characters with a lot of DEX. By doing this, you ensure that actually classes with theoretically the lowest AC are actually the best armored in the game. And that is wrong in itself.

I’ll do what I want, thanks.

Do what you want in your own campaign, I just advise other people not to make the same mistake, invalidating all the Class AC hypothesis in one stroke because you like magic users more than other classes.

First, show me where I said the improved robes are easy to procure.

"I made robes of mage armor a cheap uncommon item" If it's cheap, it can be bought, and if it's only uncommon, it should not be that hard to procure...

Second, your hesitancy to give out magic items is a you thing, not some objectively correct way to run the game.

Where did you get that I hesitate to give magic items ? What I don't do is to cheaply give away unbalancing items, but I do give plenty (which, by the way is not the way the game is built).

They need one hand, generally, and not all DMs even enforce that. The point is, though, they aren’t getting an AC that a rogue couldn’t get.

Why ? Because they don't max their Dex as quickly as rogues ? Moreover, you are taking things the wrong way, it's rogues who should get AC the mages don't, because rogues have an armor proficiency.

I would advise you to not try to talk down to people like you know better than others how they should run their games.

You can run your games the way you want, and say that you like some things, and I can also therefore say that I dislike these things, And, honestly, on this on, factually, items which are better than rare should not be uncommon and items which are better than legendary should not be rare. Use at least the very easy yardstick provided by the game in terms of "plusses" vs. rarity.

Unlike you, I’ve seen these items in play. They’re fine.

Yeah, right, I'm pretty sure that there are no rogues or heavy armor users in your games. Otherwise, they would be very frustrated that mages easily get the equivalent of +5 armor to their lack of proficiency, whereas a good configured light armor user can get a much better armor (+3 equivalent, legenday equivalent) than heavy armor users can. Or do you also have uncommon +3 armor for all types of armor as well ?

Mages are intended to have a crappy AC, and have been reduced in power at high level for very good reason, they need to remain glass cannons.

 

[Stalker0]

So, therefore, if you are trying to be pedantic, not "That's the first thing I said". Q.E.D.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I kindly ask you to take this debate outside and lets get back to our regularly scheduled topic.

 

[Fenris-77]

I want a hundred tough guys. Then I want a hundred soft guys to make those tough guys look tougher.